Not By Works

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

I agree with you that we do not know for sure. It's a fascinating study.

http://www.biblicaltheology.com/Research/PerkinsR01.html

I did not say anything wrong. The gospel is another word of the good news. The thief clearly heard the gospels being preached (the good news ) because he recognized a Jesus as the messiah and son of God....

So I think maybe next time before typing out something you should think it through. You know the titles are, The gospel according to Mark and so on right? They are writing down all the things from Jesus’s life. Those same things prior to being wrote down was being talked about and preached.....

So what did I say wrong? Maybe you’re confused about what the gospel is verses what the four gospels are according to do and so?

There was no Jews yet. That’s why Abraham is often considered the father of the Jews. This whole thing mostly took place in Mesopotamia which included the Sumer regions. Out of those people, Abraham was picked by God. Later on in his line the Jewish tribe arose.

It may also help people to remember that gentile is a Greek word that is used as a umbrella term for non Jewish people. Often the word , Hellén, for a Greek is translated gentile and so is ethnos that means nations. In the old testament they often just used that specific nations name. Such as Hagar was a Egyptian. Some translate it and apply “gentile” there. Jonah preached to the Assyrians and often that’s just read as to the gentiles.

Gentile just means non Jewish. Prior to Jewish people, the concept of gentile did not exist. So even though Abraham was born a “gentile” it’s because jews did not yet exist and therefore either did gentiles.

That cannot be, jews have been scattered throughout since the split into the 2 kingdoms in the ot

When I read this post

#148 146

it seems like it goes beyond what is written in the text, to fit yet again, some preconceived ideas.

I think this is a lot of adding into the text one way and taking away in other ways.

And Jesus did more than just forgive the thief of his sins, he was given the gift of eternal life because of faith alone.

Just like all Jewish people were able to who died forgiven before a new covenant begin... not reading into anything OT adding anything. The thief did what all Jews were able to do while Jesus was alive on earth. Repent and believe and be forgiven. Once the new covenant begin the rules were different.

Was he given the gift of eternal life?

Galatians 3:27
New American Standard Bible


27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.



1 Peter 3:18-21
New American Standard Bible


18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, thejust for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Those verses are very clear. It’s in baptism we are clothed with Christ.

Acts 2:37-38 is very clear that it’s in baptism we receive forgives of sins and receive the promise of the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 3:18-21 is very clear when it says baptism is what saves you, not the water itself in baptism that cleans the body, but that in baptism you are making an appeal to god.


Colossians 2:11-12
New American Standard Bible


11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Those verses explain why it’s an appeal to God. In baptism we receive a spiritual circumcision because we are buried and raised with him. Which is what romans 6 days.


Romans 6:1-6
New American Standard Bible


Believers Are Dead to Sin, Alive to God
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

We also see more than peter and paul teaching this but Jesus himself.



Matthew 28:18-20
New American Standard Bible


18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”


How do we make disciples, which are Christians? Teaching them the gospel and baptizing them.

We are all given the gift of eternal life at one time. We all die and go to the grave. Then at the white throne judgement those whose name were in the book of life are given eternal life to enjoy on the restored earth as heaven ( new Jerusalem) comes down to earth and those not found in the book of life are cast into hell and destroyed. So is hades (the grave) and death).

So are you saying Eternal life is not a present posession?
If so .. I agree with @dcontroversal you have a lot to learn.

Back it up with scripture then.
because if you think we are saved twice you have a lot to learn. We don’t get saved now and then get saved when our name is called in the book of life. Just like the lost don’t get condemned at death and the. Resurrected and not found in the book of life and judged a second time and cast into hell. One salvation and one judgement.

So you were not saved at your baptism like your profile suggests?

I don't think they distinguish between Paradise and salvation, the former implies the latter for them.

Baptism is when we are forgiven of sins, put on Christ, receive the Holy Spirit and added to the church. If I remain a Christian, and will, I will die and go to the grave and be awoken at my resurrection and hear my name in the book of life and then I’ll be saved.

Some people turn from their faith though after believing and being baptized into Christ. They turn their back on Christ and when they die they go to hades and when resurrected they don’t receive eternal life but are destroyed in hell.

So you interpret vs6 as David was talking about himself?

Amen! John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (NKJV)

John 5:24 - I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the person whose ears are open to My words [who listens to My message] and believes and trusts in and clings to and relies on Him Who sent Me has (possesses now) eternal life. And he does not come into judgment [does not incur sentence of judgment, will not come under condemnation], but he has already passed over out of death into life. (AMPC)