How is life treating you?

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Going_Nowhere

Well-known member
Nov 10, 2019
1,727
939
113
#42
Things seem pretty hopeless now. And they show no signs of getting better. So it's not looking good for me.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#46
Things seem pretty hopeless now. And they show no signs of getting better. So it's not looking good for me.
=================================
GN,
I promise you, when we love and belong to Jesus, there will always
be a silver-lining inside the tapestry of our heart's love for Him...
sometimes it's very easy to find and feel, but often we are
being tried and tested as He strengthens us...
PS. 27:5.
For in the time of trouble He shall hide me in His pavilion: in the secret of His tabernacle shall He hide me;
He shall set me up upon a Rock.
91:2.
I will say of The LORD, He is my 'refuge and my fortress': my God; in Him will I trust.
143:8.
Cause me to hear Your loving kindness in the morning; for in You do I trust:
cause me to know the way wherein I should walk; for I lift up my soul unto You.
 

melita916

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
10,464
2,692
113
#47
life is ok. i haven't work since mid-march, and work emailed me 2 weeks ago asking if i'm available to return, to which i said yes and asked when. i haven't heard back. i hope they let me know soon whether i'm returning or not. i won't be surprised if they say there isn't enough work because i was originally hired as a temp. buuuuut i kinda need to know if i need to look elsewhere lol.

BUT! God is faithful. we don't lack a single thing :)
 
Aug 16, 2020
540
363
63
29
#48
I see life as a Roller Coaster, we have good days and bad days, so it’s constantly going up or down.

But it is my belief that God is good, that gives me hope, no matter it being a good day or a bad day.
 

Infinite_Ark

Active member
Sep 19, 2020
165
71
28
#49
We must remember the reliability of scripture is backed by archeology, manuscripts, early church fathers writings, secular accounts that speak on the early Christian movement and historians have shown how accurate the names of people, historical events, and geographically was the writings of the NT.



The point is we have evidence to show both the OT and NT was recorded before 300 A.D. Of course, we also know by this evidence the Gnostic gospels and Judaism sects broke off to include a more works base salvation or the opposite as one gnostic sect believed they were now free to sin. Paul warned of this group by name.

And by the time of Constantine even though I do support him theologically. The council of Nicea only confirmed what had already been written. But just as today mankind can still interpret those writings differently due to sin or ignorance.

https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2019/02/15/the-earliest-new-testament-manuscripts/

So I would like to place a pebble in the shoe of this site you referenced. They claim here https://www.torahofmessiah.org/facts-from-acts that Jesus is not God incarnate. Okay, this is an absolute claim and if wrong then how can we trust a site if proven wrong but also do not take into account the counter-evidence?

So I will ask do you believe Jesus is God in the flesh?

I'll tell you that you normally see this argument from none Messianic Jews, Islam, and atheists. Jews don't even acknowledge Jesus as Messiah and especially not God, Islam sees Jesus as prophet and Messiah but not God, Atheists see obviously that God doesn't exist number 1 or Jesus was just a man. All 3 also claim the modern Bible or NT is unreliable.

The Torah with the NT both point to Jesus as God incarnate.

https://www.gotquestions.org/is-Jesus-God.html


Genesis 1:1-3 already shows God, the Spirit, and the Word when God spoke. The Word later in John 1 we learn the Word became flesh.

Finally, we must know that if God is all-powerful then He easily could defend the accuracy of His Word. If not then what kind of all-powerful God would he be? How could we be accountable to the Word if it was corrupted before our time?

I'll not go further in less you need me to. Hope this helps.
I would love you to go further if you have time. Your words make a lot of sense. And I feel better reading them because that site seemed to have historic reference to support their ideas and let me to think in returning to the faith and trust in Jesus that I would be wrong if trusting the whole of the Bible. They seem to think only certain parts of the testament are genuine.

Maybe it sounds naive or stupid even but I just want to know the truth. If that sounds right. And yes, even when I was fully in the faith I always believed and do still that Jesus was also God. That site saying this wasn't true but was a pagan invention was very confusing.

Thank you for your help.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,863
4,513
113
#50
I would love you to go further if you have time. Your words make a lot of sense. And I feel better reading them because that site seemed to have historic reference to support their ideas and let me to think in returning to the faith and trust in Jesus that I would be wrong if trusting the whole of the Bible. They seem to think only certain parts of the testament are genuine.

Maybe it sounds naive or stupid even but I just want to know the truth. If that sounds right. And yes, even when I was fully in the faith I always believed and do still that Jesus was also God. That site saying this wasn't true but was a pagan invention was very confusing.

Thank you for your help.
Your journey seems very familiar to a few people who came into faith as atheists. Lee Strobel was a journalist and decided he would use his journalist skills to disprove the resurrection. His quest not only failed but led him to faith. He wrote the book The Case For Christ, The Case For Faith, and the movie The Case For Christ was based on his research.

J Warner Wallace is a cold case homicide detective who thought he would disprove Christianity by using his cold case skills to show the resurrection was false. He deals with cases that are old, the witnesses are usually dead, the evidence is saved and he has to determine what is true. Basically, it led him to faith. He wrote a book called Cold-Case Christianity.

C. S. Lewis was an atheist until he philosophically came to a conclusion about evil. He realized how could he know if a line was crooked, if he hadn't first known it was straight. How could know something was evil without knowing something was first good? This led to his thoughts on the law of morality and how morality proves God's existence. You will find his summery in the book called Mere Christianity.

Josh McDowell was also an atheist but came to faith through studying the evidence for Christianity. He eventually co-wrote with his son Shawn McDowell the massive book called Evidence that demands a verdict. It includes such as archaeological discoveries, the extant manuscripts of the biblical texts, fulfilled prophecies, and the miracle of the resurrection.

Dr. Michael Brown who is also an author, apologist, professor, and noted proponent of Messianic Judaism, and Christian Zionism. He has probably countered any anti-New Testament arguments given by his Jewish counterparts.

Obviously, with anything, there will be some faith required. Scientists use faith when using the laws of nature. They can not see the laws but trust the effects and trust they have never changed or else that could throw off many different theories.

We use faith to drive a car. We have enough evidence and probability to conclude despite the dangers the car will most likely make it to our destination. Despite never having all the facts or variables we still have enough evidence to make a conclusion and a decision.

I would personally say choose Jesus now and then continue the journey because if God exists then your eternal future depends on your choices now. Tomorrow isn't promised. But obviously, I understand if you are not ready to commit your life to Him. Understanding will get easier as the Spirit will be less restricted to move.

Maybe it sounds naive or stupid even but I just want to know the truth.
It isn't stupid or naive. God calls us to be truth-seekers and truth speakers. After all, God is the source of truth. Source of Wisdom. Jesus is considered the Word in Greek "Logos" and in English logic is derived from logos.

Remember this, to believe in Jesus Christ isn't an intellectual problem because many great Christians have been in every field of life as scientists, Drs, engineers, mathematicians, etc. It is typically a moral problem as people love certain sins.

As for Jesus as God is a pagan invention well as mentioned most scholars will agree the reliability of our Biblical text is extremely accurate due to the 1000s of manuscripts and fragments. Most historical figures like Alexander the Great has only a few sources that historians use to teach about Alexander while the Bible has 10× more the evidence.

So if reliable then our Bible simply has interpretation differences. The early Church fathers also spoke of Jesus as God. For example,

Ignatius (AD 50-117) was the bishop at the church in Antioch and also a disciple of John the Apostle. He wrote a series of letters to various churches on his way to Rome, where he was to be martyred. He writes,

Ignatius, who is also Theophorus, unto her which hath been blessed in greatness through the plentitude of God the Father; which hath been foreordained before the ages to be for ever unto abiding and unchangeable glory, united and elect in a true passion, by the will of the Father and of Jesus Christ our God; even unto the church which is in Ephesus [of Asia], worthy of all felicitation: abundant greeting in Christ Jesus and in blameless joy.​
Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you.​
There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord.​
For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan, both from the seed of David and of the Holy Spirit.​
Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life.​
For our God Jesus Christ is more visible now that he is in the Father.​
I glorify Jesus Christ, the God who made you so wise, for I observed that you are established in an unshakable faith, having been nailed, as it were, to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ.​
Wait expectantly for the one who is above time: the Eternal, the Invisible, who for our sake became visible; the Intangible, the Unsuffering, who for our sake suffered, who for our sake endured in every way.​
https://www.str.org/w/nine-early-church-fathers-who-taught-jesus-is-god


So as always when you hear a counter argument, do counter research until you find which is true.
 

Infinite_Ark

Active member
Sep 19, 2020
165
71
28
#51
Your journey seems very familiar to a few people who came into faith as atheists. Lee Strobel was a journalist and decided he would use his journalist skills to disprove the resurrection. His quest not only failed but led him to faith. He wrote the book The Case For Christ, The Case For Faith, and the movie The Case For Christ was based on his research.

J Warner Wallace is a cold case homicide detective who thought he would disprove Christianity by using his cold case skills to show the resurrection was false. He deals with cases that are old, the witnesses are usually dead, the evidence is saved and he has to determine what is true. Basically, it led him to faith. He wrote a book called Cold-Case Christianity.

C. S. Lewis was an atheist until he philosophically came to a conclusion about evil. He realized how could he know if a line was crooked, if he hadn't first known it was straight. How could know something was evil without knowing something was first good? This led to his thoughts on the law of morality and how morality proves God's existence. You will find his summery in the book called Mere Christianity.

Josh McDowell was also an atheist but came to faith through studying the evidence for Christianity. He eventually co-wrote with his son Shawn McDowell the massive book called Evidence that demands a verdict. It includes such as archaeological discoveries, the extant manuscripts of the biblical texts, fulfilled prophecies, and the miracle of the resurrection.

Dr. Michael Brown who is also an author, apologist, professor, and noted proponent of Messianic Judaism, and Christian Zionism. He has probably countered any anti-New Testament arguments given by his Jewish counterparts.

Obviously, with anything, there will be some faith required. Scientists use faith when using the laws of nature. They can not see the laws but trust the effects and trust they have never changed or else that could throw off many different theories.

We use faith to drive a car. We have enough evidence and probability to conclude despite the dangers the car will most likely make it to our destination. Despite never having all the facts or variables we still have enough evidence to make a conclusion and a decision.

I would personally say choose Jesus now and then continue the journey because if God exists then your eternal future depends on your choices now. Tomorrow isn't promised. But obviously, I understand if you are not ready to commit your life to Him. Understanding will get easier as the Spirit will be less restricted to move.



It isn't stupid or naive. God calls us to be truth-seekers and truth speakers. After all, God is the source of truth. Source of Wisdom. Jesus is considered the Word in Greek "Logos" and in English logic is derived from logos.

Remember this, to believe in Jesus Christ isn't an intellectual problem because many great Christians have been in every field of life as scientists, Drs, engineers, mathematicians, etc. It is typically a moral problem as people love certain sins.

As for Jesus as God is a pagan invention well as mentioned most scholars will agree the reliability of our Biblical text is extremely accurate due to the 1000s of manuscripts and fragments. Most historical figures like Alexander the Great has only a few sources that historians use to teach about Alexander while the Bible has 10× more the evidence.

So if reliable then our Bible simply has interpretation differences. The early Church fathers also spoke of Jesus as God. For example,

Ignatius (AD 50-117) was the bishop at the church in Antioch and also a disciple of John the Apostle. He wrote a series of letters to various churches on his way to Rome, where he was to be martyred. He writes,

Ignatius, who is also Theophorus, unto her which hath been blessed in greatness through the plentitude of God the Father; which hath been foreordained before the ages to be for ever unto abiding and unchangeable glory, united and elect in a true passion, by the will of the Father and of Jesus Christ our God; even unto the church which is in Ephesus [of Asia], worthy of all felicitation: abundant greeting in Christ Jesus and in blameless joy.​
Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you.​
There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord.​
For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan, both from the seed of David and of the Holy Spirit.​
Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life.​
For our God Jesus Christ is more visible now that he is in the Father.​
I glorify Jesus Christ, the God who made you so wise, for I observed that you are established in an unshakable faith, having been nailed, as it were, to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ.​
Wait expectantly for the one who is above time: the Eternal, the Invisible, who for our sake became visible; the Intangible, the Unsuffering, who for our sake suffered, who for our sake endured in every way.​
https://www.str.org/w/nine-early-church-fathers-who-taught-jesus-is-god


So as always when you hear a counter argument, do counter research until you find which is true.
Thank you for taking the time to share all of that. Much to consider.
I am very curious of the book Evidence. I will see if I can obtain a copy here.
I will be reading your information over time as there is much to take in.
I am not an atheist. I want you to know that also. I was raised in the belief.
I appreciate your work to help me understand better the path to Christ.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,863
4,513
113
#52
Thank you for taking the time to share all of that. Much to consider.
I am very curious of the book Evidence. I will see if I can obtain a copy here.
I will be reading your information over time as there is much to take in.
I am not an atheist. I want you to know that also. I was raised in the belief.
I appreciate your work to help me understand better the path to Christ.
No problem! Keep me updated how research is going.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#53
I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far!

Seriously, though, I'm super grateful for what I have. My life is a little rough around the edges, but overall I have stability. Good perspective to hold is this is all for God's glory. Never forget that if you're struggling!
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,863
4,513
113
#54
I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far!

Seriously, though, I'm super grateful for what I have. My life is a little rough around the edges, but overall I have stability. Good perspective to hold is this is all for God's glory. Never forget that if you're struggling!
God's glory vs shame. Good witness vs bad witness. Which will we decide to be is always question to answer and decide before any future situation. Commit it to your mind and it will be easier to stand in the future.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,863
4,513
113
#55
I see life as a Roller Coaster, we have good days and bad days, so it’s constantly going up or down.

But it is my belief that God is good, that gives me hope, no matter it being a good day or a bad day.
The older I get, I really am starting to like the ground and not being slung everywhere lol. What also brings me hope is knowing God is also just, all powerful, all knowing, forgiving, merciful, and graceful, and loving.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,863
4,513
113
#56
life is ok. i haven't work since mid-march, and work emailed me 2 weeks ago asking if i'm available to return, to which i said yes and asked when. i haven't heard back. i hope they let me know soon whether i'm returning or not. i won't be surprised if they say there isn't enough work because i was originally hired as a temp. buuuuut i kinda need to know if i need to look elsewhere lol.

BUT! God is faithful. we don't lack a single thing :)
Wow I believe I would be calling again just to check in. Keep us updated. While waiting though you might as well start applying just to have possibly a plan B.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#57
Things seem pretty hopeless now. And they show no signs of getting better. So it's not looking good for me.
Apparently, you have hit rock bottom so now there is no where else to go except up in a positive direction. I have been where you are now and as you are probably already aware, it is a lonely and desolate place.
 

Infinite_Ark

Active member
Sep 19, 2020
165
71
28
#58
No problem! Keep me updated how research is going.
I did look for the Josh McDowell book, Evidence. I found he has written quite a few since his first one. I have his newest of 1999 on order. New Evidence That Demands A Verdict.
I'm hoping that installment includes his first work.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,863
4,513
113
#59
I did look for the Josh McDowell book, Evidence. I found he has written quite a few since his first one. I have his newest of 1999 on order. New Evidence That Demands A Verdict.
I'm hoping that installment includes his first work.
It includes the old and the new. I purchased the same one a few years ago. It will definitely keep you busy. Lots of information. Lol.
 

Infinite_Ark

Active member
Sep 19, 2020
165
71
28
#60
It includes the old and the new. I purchased the same one a few years ago. It will definitely keep you busy. Lots of information. Lol.
I believe you. Now I wait for shipment. I'm going to see if it is available on Audible or as an audio book also.