When are we saved ?

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#1,422
Jul 3, 2015
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EleventhHour said:
That is a lovely picture... the complete ensemble.... she just needs gloves....I love that look ... I was born at the wrong time I would have loved dressing in the Fifties....lol

I am saving that one...thanks!
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Oh, but those shoes! :LOL:

As children, my sisters and I loved rifling through boxes of old clothes in the attic, and playing dress-up :D
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#1,425
Sep 19, 2020
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#1,425
I didn’t post right.

When Paul uses the word elect in a salvation context, it is about Christians. Only when He is quoting or alluding to the OT does it mean Christ or Israel.

For example, Romans 8:33 is talking about the same people that Romans 8:1-32 is talking about.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#1,426
Aug 4, 2020
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OIC1965 said:
No rational reason to interpret it that way. Nothing supports that view. It is entirely arbitrary.
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I'm not sure i even understand your argument against what I'm saying about election and Predestination. Your saying its wrong but I'm still confused in light of what your saying is wrong with my view ,how your view makes sense ? What are you arguing for ? Whats the big picture here? Whats the consequences you see my view holds. What does your view help us understand the components of salvation and how we appropriate salvation..Your view has me scratching my head ?
 
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OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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throughfaith said:
Some take this view. its not misplaced.
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Not only is Romans about the church/ the believers, the book of Ephesians which has the most definitive teaching on election was written primarily to Gentiles.

All I see here is people reading their pre existing beliefs into the Bible. It’s really sad.
 
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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#1,429
OIC1965 said:
Not only is Romans about the church/ the believers, the book of Ephesians which has the most definitive teaching on election was written primarily to Gentiles.

All I see here is people reading their pre existing beliefs into the Bible. It’s really sad.
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' teaching on election ' ? thats not something a serious bible student should say . Thats doctrine speak.
 
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OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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#1,430
throughfaith said:
I'm not sure i even understand your argument against what I'm saying about election and Predestination. Your saying its wrong but I'm still confused in light of what your saying is wrong with my view ,how your view makes sense ? What are you arguing for ? Whats the big picture here? Whats the consequences you see my view holds. What does your view help us understand the components of salvation and how we appropriate salvation..Your view has me scratching my head ?
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Which comes first? Predestination or calling?
 
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OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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#1,431
throughfaith said:
' teaching on election ' ? thats not something a serious bible student should say . Thats doctrine speak.
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So there should be no teaching on
εκλογή ( election)? Just take that word out of the Bible??? The word is found seven times in the Bible. And to choose ( Ephesians 1:4) is the verb form of choice, which is the same as election anyways
 
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OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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#1,432
EleventhHour said:
See you did not answer my question... sigh .. I give up.

R. C. Sproul would clearly state YES God chose those individuals for salvation and only those individuals.
Yet this has far reaching implications and R. C. Sproul accepted those implications as well.

Alright, I have learned well enough that once this dogma once it is in someone's mind it is hard for them to see otherwise.
Movin on.....
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Hi. I’m flattered but I’m not RC Sproul.;)
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#1,435
Aug 4, 2020
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#1,435
OIC1965 said:
So there should be no teaching on
εκλογή ( election)? Just take that word out of the Bible??? The word is found seven times in the Bible. And to choose ( Ephesians 1:4) is the verb form of choice, which is the same as election anyways
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I meant when someone says . " The bible is teaching this and that in this passage " " Paul is teaching the sovereign, doctrines of grace here " ect . Thats not what the bible is doing . Thats someone confused about what the bible SAYS .
 
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OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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#1,436
throughfaith said:
I meant when someone says . " The bible is teaching this and that in this passage " " Paul is teaching the sovereign, doctrines of grace here " ect . Thats not what the bible is doing . Thats someone confused about what the bible SAYS .
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So Paul does not teach in his epistles?
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
Which comes first? Predestination or calling?
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Predestination is of existing saints to future glorification/ Adoption. I realise this clashes with those indoctrinated with a more reformed theological systematic. In fact I realise this view comes as a bewildering concept when a person has only been subjected to either reformed perspectives . Calvinism and Arminsim. I often wonder if to some they only understand these two options.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#1,439
Jul 3, 2015
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#1,439
throughfaith said:
Predestination is of existing saints to future glorification/ Adoption. I realise this clashes with those indoctrinated with a more reformed theological systematic. In fact I realise this view comes as a bewildering concept when a person has only been subjected to either reformed perspectives . Calvinism and Arminsim. I often wonder if to some they only understand these two options.
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It seems so. In fact, I recently posted a third option and was mocked for it. Apparently if you are able to harmonize Scripture in a way that does not align with mainstream thinking, it is believed you belong to some sect or cult. That happens a lot, as people are unable to look beyond the boxes they are in.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#1,440
Aug 4, 2020
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#1,440
OIC1965 said:
So there should be no teaching on
εκλογή ( election)? Just take that word out of the Bible??? The word is found seven times in the Bible. And to choose ( Ephesians 1:4) is the verb form of choice, which is the same as election anyways
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11¶Wherefore remember OIC1965 that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

STRANGERS !!!! HAVING NO HOPE !!!!

" oh but God chose me before I was born " He saw i would choose him . He determined i would be his love gift to ....STOP with the nonsense . STRANGERS !!!!!!! NO HOPE !!!!!!! WITHOUT !!!!! GOD . WAKEY WAKEY !!!!!
 
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