The 144,000,The Remnant Church In The Wilderness, Fed (Manna) From Heaven During The Tribulation

Your claim is in error, the promised seed is to the church both Jew and Gentile,who have faith in Jesus Christ

Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed.

Galatians 3:26-30KJV
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There are (Two) Israel's seen below.

1. Ethnic Israel Of The Flesh

2. Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed.

Gods word clearly tells you below, the children of the flesh (Ethnic Jews) they are not the children of God

Gods words below are very clear, and easy to understand.

Roman's 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

I have no idea why you separate them. God always sees Israel as 12 tribes
1 Kings 18:31

I believe the only future event for Israel is the Remnant are saved, and the rest are blind to salvation.

When the Remnant elect are saved, they are (Added To The Church) where there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

The books of 1st and 2nd Samuel may also be of assistance, as well as all the books of the prophets.

Read Revelations 7:4-8 how Israel's tribal identity is preserved by God until the end. You can also be adopted into an Israelite tribe, if it was not by "the womb". King David's great grandmother Ruth, the former Moabite, was adopted as an Israelite. Many peoples of mixed origins left with the Israelites from Egypt in the Exodus, and were all adopted into one of the tribes. Some people however read Romans 11 there own way (desperately trying to separate Christ's restored Kingdom of Israel, from the Body of Christ), and do not want to realise that there is one restored Kingdom of Israel with Gentiles and Jews grafted into, which is the Body of Christ. Restored Israel of Revelations 20:1-6 and Ezekiel 37 coincides. Gog and Magog of Revelations 20:7-10 and Ezekiel 38 coincides.

How can Messiah, Christ Yeshua, according to your notions be with the Body of Christ, and also at the same time be separately with grafted, restored Israel? If according to you grafted, restored Israel and the Body of Christ is not one and the same?:


Revelation 20 (ESV)

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Ezekiel 37 (ESV)

25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.

You continue to make fatal errors. You continue to talk of Christ' restored Kingdom of Israel.

Read Revelations 7:4-8 how Israel's tribal identity is preserved by God until the end. You can also be adopted into an Israelite tribe, if it was not by "the womb". King David's great grandmother Ruth, the former Moabite, was adopted as an Israelite. Many peoples of mixed origins left with the Israelites from Egypt in the Exodus, and were all adopted into one of the tribes. Some people however read Romans 11 there own way (desperately trying to separate Christ's restored Kingdom of Israel, from the Body of Christ), and do not want to realise that there is one restored Kingdom of Israel with Gentiles and Jews grafted into, which is the Body of Christ. Restored Israel of Revelations 20:1-6 and Ezekiel 37 coincides. Gog and Magog of Revelations 20:7-10 and Ezekiel 38 coincides.

How can Messiah, Christ Yeshua, according to your notions be with the Body of Christ, and also at the same time be separately with grafted, restored Israel? If according to you grafted, restored Israel and the Body of Christ is not one and the same?:


Revelation 20 (ESV)

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Ezekiel 37 (ESV)

25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.

You continue to make fatal errors. You continue to talk of Christ' restored Kingdom of Israel.

1. The natural branches are CUT OFF. There is no restored Kingdom of Israel.
2. The wild branches are GRAFTED IN - where??? To the ROOT!!! How could they be grafted into the branches that ARE (present tense) CUT OUT?
3. When the Tree is COMPLETE AGAIN, the branches are still called NATURAL and WILD - making a DIFFERENCE.
4. A Tree is a King and His Kingdom. Since the ROOT is Christ - it is Christ's Kingdom, not the Nation of Israel. Daniel, an Israeli prophet, says that Christ's Kingdom FILLS THE EARTH - not Israel (Dan.2:44).
5. Matthew 21:43 says that Israel have this Kingdom ripped from them

All it needs to establish something is two or three verses stating it in plain language. But verses containing what you said are nowhere to be found. That the ten northern Tribes were defeated, deported and held captive by Assyria is well know to the Bible and not disputed here. Except for the prophets pointing this out to Judah, these tribes REMAIN dispersed among all nations and the only mention of them is in Acts of the Apostles and James. Almost without exception they rejected Christ and tried to kill Paul.

A hundred plus years later, Judah and Benjamin were defeated, deported and help captive for 70 years by Babylon. When released by Cyrus, only 2.5% of them returned to Jerusalem. This 2.5% produced the small, insignificant and apostate Nation that rejected their Messiah. In 70 AD they were defeated by Rome, and scattered throughout the world. By any means this means that the TWELVE TRIBES are scattered around the globe. In the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, all records of who was who were destroyed. Only God knows who the seed of Jacob are now, and only Godknows who are Levites. David's royal line ended with Jesus. It could be that half the present population of the present State of Israel are imposters. Who knows but God?

Those who live in the new State of Israel (i) do not own the borders that David did, (ii) do not keep the Law, (iii) have a democracy - not a theocratic monarchy, (iv) do not contain much more than half of all claimed Jews worldwide, (v) are sustained by help from the Western World, both politically and financially, and (vi) continue to vehemently reject and hate Jesus Christ.

Any theory that among the world's population the born again Christains are from the ten northern Tribes, or are the ten northern Tribes, is defeated by the gathering of "Ephraim", in Ezekiel 37 (which you quote). Thy are predicted TO BE BOUND TO JUDAH - NOT THE CHURCH! Moreover, Ephaim is only bound to Judah IN RESURRECTION. Christians are members of the Church long before resurrection. And Christian are not, and never will be, BOUND TO JUDAH. They remain separate EVEN IN NEW JERUSALEM.

I feel that we've been through this enough. Just answer one question for yourself, not for men. Do you want to be seed of Jacob, or seed of God? They both have different natures and both have different destinies. One is born of the womb and one is born of the Spirit. One has Adam's nature and needs a new heart and a new spirit and a new Covenant of Law. The other has God's nature by a New Birth and needs to be transformed in Christ's image. One will enjoy to serve God in Canaan. The other will enjoy Christ as a husband. The two are never put together. Even in the picture of the Olive Tree they remain true to their ORIGIN. A natural branch is a natural branch when in the stem, when cut out of the stem and when grafted in again. A wild branch is a wild branch before it is grafted into the stem, it is called a wild branch with the threat of being cut out again and it is called a wild branch while it abides.

In the Old Testament God dwelt with, and had dealings with Israel alone. Israel was Israel because it was seed of Jacob. The other nations did not have God dwelling WITH them, did not have the Law and did nit have the Promises. Israel is CONTRASTED with other Nations. In the New Testament, God creates a NEW MAN out of the TWO of the Old Testament. The New Man has no past, is fully new, and God dwells IN them. They are persecuted by Israel first, and then by the Nations. They are CONTRASTED with the Nations and CONTRASTED with the Nation of Israel. A man EITHER seed of Adam and Noah, OR seed of Jacob (Israel), OR seed of the Holy Spirit. A man can jump from Adam to Jacob because they are the same TYPE "born of a woman". A man CANNOT jump from Israel or the Nations into the New Man. They are worlds apart. One comes from a "corruptible seed", and the other from an "incorruptible Seed". One is profane and the other is holy.

Take your choice. It all hangs on your BIRTH - just as you and I have no claim to England's throne, but Charles does. He was born to it. You and can do what we like but we don't have the ORIGIN for the throne. Charles was BORN to it.

I feel that we've been through this enough. Just answer one question for yourself, not for men. Do you want to be seed of Jacob, or seed of God? They both have different natures and both have different destinies. One is born of the womb and one is born of the Spirit. One has Adam's nature and needs a new heart and a new spirit and a new Covenant of Law. The other has God's nature by a New Birth and needs to be transformed in Christ's image. One will enjoy to serve God in Canaan. The other will enjoy Christ as a husband. The two are never put together. Even in the picture of the Olive Tree they remain true to their ORIGIN. A natural branch is a natural branch when in the stem, when cut out of the stem and when grafted in again. A wild branch is a wild branch before it is grafted into the stem, it is called a wild branch with the threat of being cut out again and it is called a wild branch while it abides.

In the Old Testament God dwelt with, and had dealings with Israel alone. Israel was Israel because it was seed of Jacob. The other nations did not have God dwelling WITH them, did not have the Law and did nit have the Promises. Israel is CONTRASTED with other Nations. In the New Testament, God creates a NEW MAN out of the TWO of the Old Testament. The New Man has no past, is fully new, and God dwells IN them. They are persecuted by Israel first, and then by the Nations. They are CONTRASTED with the Nations and CONTRASTED with the Nation of Israel. A man EITHER seed of Adam and Noah, OR seed of Jacob (Israel), OR seed of the Holy Spirit. A man can jump from Adam to Jacob because they are the same TYPE "born of a woman". A man CANNOT jump from Israel or the Nations into the New Man. They are worlds apart. One comes from a "corruptible seed", and the other from an "incorruptible Seed". One is profane and the other is holy.

Take your choice. It all hangs on your BIRTH - just as you and I have no claim to England's throne, but Charles does. He was born to it. You and can do what we like but we don't have the ORIGIN for the throne. Charles was BORN to it.

The 144,000 saved Christian Jews, represent the remnant church, that will have the Everlasting gospel to preach Rev 14:4-7, they will be camped in the wilderness of Bashan, Carmel, during the tribulation being fed (Manna) as in the days of old Micah 7:12-17, this is the woman in the wilderness seen in Rev 12:6 below

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:12-17KJV
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

Revelation 14:4-7KJV
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth,

you can make it all complicated and everyone have a different opinion, or you can keep it real simple. which would God do in order to not confuse people?


Christ was an Israelite and God's chosen people are Israel. all those who follow Christ become Israelites - God's people, just like His Son - an Israelite too, from His birth.

Not one word in Rev Chapter 13 states the saints are overcome and then in a wilderness somewhere, it dosent even suggest such a claim (Your Claim Is False)

The saints on earth in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation 11:7 below.

When the (Two Witnesses) finish their testimony after 1260 days,they will be overcome and killed, Gods divine plan.

The saints seen in Revelation 13:7 dosent represent the Church on earth as you suggest in error, it's the (Two Witnesses)

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

O.K. Let's take your statement; "all those who follow Christ become Israelites - God's People, just like His Son - an Israelite too, from His birth". But wait ... The very God of the universe says of His Son Jesus, "You are MY Son. This day I have begotten you" (Ps.2:7; Act.13:33; Heb.1:5, 5:5). So now we have a problem. Was God a man, or woman, or Mary, that He could bring forth Jesus. Or was God an Israelite that Jesus might be an Israelite? But ... it even gets more complicated. Jesus was born in about 4 BC. That is a fact and we all believe it. But the God of the universe says that His Son Jesus, was "firstborn of all creatures" (Col.1:15). Now that takes our Lord Jesus back quite a way earlier than 4 BC. It takes Him back BEFORE Genesis 1:1. But ... Oh! We have another problem now. If our Lord Jesus was "firstborn of the creation", how could he have been "begotten in a day"? Is not a day part of creation? Was the day first, or Jesus being begotten?

And, just to make matters a little more complicated, it says in 1st Corinthians 15:45 that our Lord Jesus BECAME the Life-Giving Spirit. The word "BECAME" means that He was NOT that Spirit before, but went through a process and BECAME it. Was He NOT that Spirit when Elijah raised up the boy of Zarephath?

Would you say that things are simple? Or would you say things are complex?

Oh, and by the way, could you post just two verses that say that a man who follows Christ becomes an Israelite (you know ... let everything be established by two or three witnesses). Thanks.

Just to be clear, I'm not being frivolous. I hear you. The matter of Gentiles becoming Israelites is a hot subject in Christianity - as you no doubt have seen already.

Christ Yeshua truthfully stated that He was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Who is the house of Israel he referred to?

Find the answer below:


Matthew 10 (ESV)

5 These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And proclaim as you go, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'


Matthew 15 (ESV)

24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."


John 11 (ESV)

47 So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the council and said, "What are we to do? For this man performs many signs. 48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." 49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all. 50 Nor do you understand that it is better for you that one man should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish." 51 He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. 53 So from that day on they made plans to put him to death. 54 Jesus therefore no longer walked openly among the Jews, but went from there to the region near the wilderness, to a town called Ephraim, and there he stayed with the disciples.


Romans 11 (ESV)

26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

The "all Israel" has reference to Jacob who is surnamed Israel, and not to all of the nation of Israel. Jacob as Israel is made up of ever kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation,

Ephesians 2 (ESV)

11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.


Acts 1 (ESV)

6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

I have noted your four last postings, which contain scripture without comment. I have also, at length, explained what a "Commonwealth" is. Thanks for the exchange. Go well and God bless.

What verse states that the 144,000 is restricted to Jews only?