Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?
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On what verse say people saw jesus come on the cloud 2000 years ago?
2000 years ago Jesus was ascended to heaven not descended from heaven.
Act 1:9-12
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
2000 years ago Jesus was ascended to heaven not descended from heaven.
Act 1:9-12
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
It wasn't descended, it was vision. Not only Stephen, Paul was saw Jesus and it made him blind .
And after that, after he kill Stephen and saw Jesus, he/Paul wrote
2 tes 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
It Implyed second coming not happen when he wrote these verse
It state second coming and rapture not happen before antichrist in power/great tribulation.
And after that, after he kill Stephen and saw Jesus, he/Paul wrote
2 tes 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
It Implyed second coming not happen when he wrote these verse
It state second coming and rapture not happen before antichrist in power/great tribulation.
I the dead that pre-trib rapture is and will prepare the way for backsliding is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Backsliding is disobedience and FYI it happens not because of a pre-trib Rapture. Backsliding happens because YOU disobey God and willfully sin. The great Trib is God's wrath poured out on the world I have not been subject to HIS Wrath maybe you have.
S
The interpretation of the scriptures involved are up for discussion, and we all see through a glass darkly when it comes to prophesy (1 Cor 13)
But there is nothing about this teaching that warrants the accusation of false teaching. Your logic concerning the reaction of holy saints to adversity is flawed as well. No one who is looking for the imminent return of Jesus Christ finds it a contradiction now that 2000 years has past or that Paul hoped for the rapture himself when he said "we which are alive and remain" thus making it sound theology for each generation to expect the event known as the rapture.
We understand that it does not matter that it has not happened yet and this does not make us say "the Lord delayeth his coming" I won't try to explain why the Lord could have come in any generation because it will fall on deaf ears but I will say that your idea of someone thinking that something else must happen first before the rapture like the Tribulation is what might cause someone to not be ready and think that they have time, they are looking for the Tribulation first instead of the appearing of the Lord.
Therefore the logic you are using about a belief that might cause some to backslide would more logically apply to those who are waiting for a Tribulation first. They think they can wait and get ready when they hear the call, the Bride Groom cometh or when they enter into the Tribulation. But just like the 5 foolish virgins it will be too late.
I am trying to be nice about it but your theory makes no sense.
I do agree that it will not be in secret. I believe it will be visible. The raptured saints will probably shine like stars as they rise, visible to all from the earth who watch them rise up into the clouds which is why clouds are even mentioned; it is a visible manifestation.
But there is nothing about this teaching that warrants the accusation of false teaching. Your logic concerning the reaction of holy saints to adversity is flawed as well. No one who is looking for the imminent return of Jesus Christ finds it a contradiction now that 2000 years has past or that Paul hoped for the rapture himself when he said "we which are alive and remain" thus making it sound theology for each generation to expect the event known as the rapture.
We understand that it does not matter that it has not happened yet and this does not make us say "the Lord delayeth his coming" I won't try to explain why the Lord could have come in any generation because it will fall on deaf ears but I will say that your idea of someone thinking that something else must happen first before the rapture like the Tribulation is what might cause someone to not be ready and think that they have time, they are looking for the Tribulation first instead of the appearing of the Lord.
Therefore the logic you are using about a belief that might cause some to backslide would more logically apply to those who are waiting for a Tribulation first. They think they can wait and get ready when they hear the call, the Bride Groom cometh or when they enter into the Tribulation. But just like the 5 foolish virgins it will be too late.
I am trying to be nice about it but your theory makes no sense.
I do agree that it will not be in secret. I believe it will be visible. The raptured saints will probably shine like stars as they rise, visible to all from the earth who watch them rise up into the clouds which is why clouds are even mentioned; it is a visible manifestation.
If you do not prepare your flock for perseverance of faith through the great tribulation, there are accountability. The teachings of the 1700/1800's Darby and Scofield from Ireland, has saturated America's distorted understanding of a so-called "pre-trib rapture to fit the dispensational model trying to split the Church from Israel into whom all are grafted into, and are fellow heirs (Romans 11, Ephesians 3). From the early church fathers up and until the 1500's reformation, the understanding was of Christ Yeshua's return to be as per Mathew 24, at post-tribulation and pre-millenium.
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S
Repeating yourself has not made you any converts. You should move on to something else now. Making this your ministry exposes you as building on the wrong foundation thus ... wood, hay and stubble. You will find out one day it was a waste of your time.
Get passionate about teaching what will make Christ more known. This path you're own does not accomplish that. It is just divisive and drives a wedge of animosity between you and your brothers who believe their interpretations are as valid as yours.
You're not serving the cause of Christ with this sort of intolerance to different interpretations of eschatology.
Get passionate about teaching what will make Christ more known. This path you're own does not accomplish that. It is just divisive and drives a wedge of animosity between you and your brothers who believe their interpretations are as valid as yours.
You're not serving the cause of Christ with this sort of intolerance to different interpretations of eschatology.
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Note that all three references to his "revealed" are "PASSIVE" (someone else is 'revealing' him), not "active" (nor even 'middle voice'):
2 Thessalonians 2 -
2 for you not quickly to be shaken in mind, nor to be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as if by us, as that day of the Lord is present. 3 No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy [the departure] shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed [passive]—the son of destruction, 4 the one opposing and exalting himself above every so-called god or object of worship—so as for him to sit down in the temple of God, setting forth that he himself is God.
5 Do you not remember that, being yet with you, I was saying these things to you? 6 And now you know that which is restraining for his being revealed [passive] in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is working already; there is only the one at present restraining it, until out of the midst he be come [/come to be]. 8 And then [kai tote] the lawless one will be revealed [passive], whom the Lord Jesus will consume with the breath of His mouth and will annul by the appearing of His coming, 9 whose coming [/ARRIVAL/advent/presence/parousia] is according to the working of Satan...
[note to the readers: Paul is covering the entire SPANS of the 7 yrs in this section, not merely 3.5 yrs of them, and not merely the END of those yrs; recall also that I've pointed out the similar wording between both 2Th2:7b-8a ^ and that of Lam2:3-4 "he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy" effectively saying (to their 'enemy') "have at 'em!" See also, Hab1:6,12b "
O LORD, You have appointed them [the Chaldeans/Babylonians, v.6] to execute judgment; O Rock, You have established them [the Chaldeans/Babylonians, v.6] for correction."]
2 Thessalonians 2 -
2 for you not quickly to be shaken in mind, nor to be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as if by us, as that day of the Lord is present. 3 No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy [the departure] shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed [passive]—the son of destruction, 4 the one opposing and exalting himself above every so-called god or object of worship—so as for him to sit down in the temple of God, setting forth that he himself is God.
5 Do you not remember that, being yet with you, I was saying these things to you? 6 And now you know that which is restraining for his being revealed [passive] in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is working already; there is only the one at present restraining it, until out of the midst he be come [/come to be]. 8 And then [kai tote] the lawless one will be revealed [passive], whom the Lord Jesus will consume with the breath of His mouth and will annul by the appearing of His coming, 9 whose coming [/ARRIVAL/advent/presence/parousia] is according to the working of Satan...
[note to the readers: Paul is covering the entire SPANS of the 7 yrs in this section, not merely 3.5 yrs of them, and not merely the END of those yrs; recall also that I've pointed out the similar wording between both 2Th2:7b-8a ^ and that of Lam2:3-4 "he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy" effectively saying (to their 'enemy') "have at 'em!" See also, Hab1:6,12b "
O LORD, You have appointed them [the Chaldeans/Babylonians, v.6] to execute judgment; O Rock, You have established them [the Chaldeans/Babylonians, v.6] for correction."]
2 Peter 3 (New King James Version)
The Day of the Lord
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
The Day of the Lord
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
When I saw a commenter merely say, "typical strawman arguments [against 'pre-trib']"... I figured my suspicions were right on... Also, who has 2:16:00 (over 2 HOURS??) to listen to this guy... Put up a few of his BEST ARGUMENTS (pretty sure I've seen them all) and see where that takes us... in discussion here, I mean. The first 10-mins (or so) alone, were lame, I can say that much. 
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, let no one deceive you, that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed.
2 Thessalonians 2 (New King James Version)
The Great Apostasy
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2 (New King James Version)
The Great Apostasy
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.