Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

Listen to everyone on here they all disagree with each other they have fallen for false doctrines and rejected the truth.

Lol
I find it interesting that you go to such lengths to think a wedding is ONLY festivities and it would be strange to apply intimacy with the bride and groom.
I said chamber because it is a ROOM WITH A DOOR.

W e have
Bride
Groom
A room with a door
Door shut (for privacy)

And finally those refused because the groom has not known them (no intimacy)
Even though they had small oil,lamps, light,and were waiting for Jesus.

The last supper dialog has Jesus reenacting the Jewish betrothal and saying he goes to prepare a place in his fathers mansions for his bride.

To think the bride/groom component intimacy is something to be challenged is amazing.

You went to lengths to take the obvious off the table

If 'that wicked' in II Thessalonians 2:8 is the man of sin mentioned in verse 3 (an interpretation I have not seen challenged), then how can the pretrib rapture be possible.
II Thessalonians 2:3 says
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Compare to verse 8 emphasis mine here and above.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
See context here: <https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Thessalonians 2&version=KJV>
Notice 'that wicked' is to be destroyed with the brightness of the Lord's coming.

But notice that 'the rapture passage' in I Thessalonians 4 occurs at the Lord's coming. Bold emphasis mine.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

So we have 'that wicked' from II Thessalonians 2 being destroyed at the brightness of the Lord's coming, and the saints being raptured (caught up) at the Lord's coming. How does that leave any room for the pretrib rapture theory? There isn't any passage that actually shows or describes a rapture prior to the tribulation either. Some people read the idea into John being told to 'come up hither' near the beginning of his vision in Revelation, an odd allegorical interpretation, and a rather strange argument coming from interpreters who insist on literalism.

If 'that wicked' in II Thessalonians 2:8 is the man of sin mentioned in verse 3 (an interpretation I have not seen challenged), then how can the pretrib rapture be possible.

II Thessalonians 2:3 says
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Compare to verse 8 emphasis mine here and above.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

[...]
So we have 'that wicked' from II Thessalonians 2 being destroyed at the brightness of the Lord's coming, and the saints being raptured (caught up) at the Lord's coming. How does that leave any room for the pretrib rapture theory? There isn't any passage that actually shows or describes a rapture prior to the tribulation either. Some people read the idea into John being told to 'come up hither' near the beginning of his vision in Revelation, an odd allegorical interpretation, and a rather strange argument coming from interpreters who insist on literalism.

What other group knows your doctrine.

God does not reveal to just one believer.
Nor does he hide from his own people his purposes/truth.

What is your exclusive knowledge?

Ok you accused all in here of false doctrine.

Show me anything I posted that you disagree with using the bible as your foundation.

Recall my saying that "parousia" is used of BOTH time-slots/events/-periods (at "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" and at His "RETURN" to the earth), so that CONTEXT determines "IN WHOSE PRESENCE" His "PRESENCE [parousia]" WILL BE... at our Rapture, ONLY *WE* (the Church which is His body) will be present UP THERE (at the "meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR") WITH HIM in His PRESENCE, but at His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, His "MANIFESTATION [/brightness-kjv; epiphaneia] of His presence [/parousia]" (2:8b) will be seen/experienced BY ALL WHO ARE located ON THE EARTH (where "the man of sin" will be existing at the time); May the reader also note that 2:8a and 2:8b are seven years apart, and not occurring at the same moment.

Your response does not make much sense to me. How is your idea here relevant to what I posted?

The parousia takes place at a certain point in time. I Thessalonians 4 places it at the rapture. II Thessalonians 2 places it at the destruction of 'that wicked.' You assert various things about location of 'parousia'... I think... while mine wsa about timing.

Your comment about timing is that that 2:8 and 2:8 are seven years apart. It's rather nonsensical.

Could you please strip all your posts of varying sizes and get rid of the caps. I may just ignore your posts if you don't. I feel like I am trying to read computer code.

So am I to assume you believe the "man of sin be revealed" and his being "consumed... destroyed" take place at the same moment??

II. A revelation of that man of sin, that is (2Th_2:3), antichrist would take his rise from this general apostasy. The apostle afterwards speaks of the revelation of that wicked one (2Th_2:8), intimating the discovery which should be made of his wickedness, in order to his ruin

First off, let me ask you,

--do you believe that, at the very moment when "the man of sin [/that Wicked] be revealed" is the very moment that Jesus "destroys" [and "consumes" him with the spirit/breath of His mouth]?

--or do you believe there is a spans of time between the two?
(thus, that 8a is when "the man of sin [/that wicked]" is REVEALED, and that 8b is saying "WHOM" the Lord "shall [future tense]" consume... destroy... as in, this is identifying the one who it is He "shall [future tense to the "be revealed" thing] consume... destroy... at His [Jesus'] visible "manifestation [/epiphaneia]" when He "returns" to the earth Rev19, which isn't the same moment "the man of sin be revealed")

I'm simply saying that "parousia" is used at both "times" (each; distinctly)

(it depends on where He will be located and the TIMING of those, and who it is that will experience His "presence" in each of those distinct cases, whether "in the air" [re: "our Rapture"], or "on the earth" [re: that Wicked/man of sin, as well as all those who are still on the earth at the Rev19 time-slot, i.e. His "RETURN" to the earth--Lk12:36-37,38-42 and its parallels, and Lk19:12,15,17,19, etc])

So am I to assume you believe the "man of sin be revealed" and his being "consumed... destroyed" take place at the same moment??

The moment he is revealed, Jesus destroys him, is that what you believe?

I do not have the time to decipher the code. I'll answer the first part... I think the man of sin will be around for a little while.

What evidence do you have from scripture for multiple second comings of Christ?

That seems to me to be rather convoluted reasoning. Do you have any evidence that 'parousia' means one thing when you want it to mean one thing and something else when you want it to refer to something else?

Straw man. 'That wicked' is destroyed at the brightness of the Lord's coming, not the brightness of his own (the man of sin's) coming.

No, and it is not what I wrote, either.

presidente: I think... while mine wsa about timing. Your comment about timing is that that 2:8 and 2:8 are seven years apart. It's rather nonsensical.

It's a simple question.

Is the man of sin "destroyed" at the very same moment he's "revealed"?

Or is there a spans of time between these two events?

If you're asking about His "return," the verses using that word speak ONLY of His Second Coming to the earth (at Rev19; like in Lk12:36-38,40,42-44 and its parallels, and Lk19:12,15,17,19, etc).

THAT happens ONLY ONCE.

But we are not addressing only that. (nor is Paul in 2Th2)

Do you believe that "the entire world" (everyone in it) will be "caught up/-away" to the MEETING [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR?
I do not. I believe that only applies to "the Church which is His body" at the time of "our episynagoes UNTO HIM" there. "Our Rapture" event. No one else will experience His "presence [parousia]" at that point.

So would [in the "Parable of the BANQUET"] "and THE WEDDING HALL was filled with GUESTS [PLURAL]" Matt22:10. It's a picture though.




"Door Open"

Consider the following:

--"open door... that no man can shut" Rev3:8
[see also about "Cyrus--His anointed" in Isa45:1 "[said to Cyrus] to open the doors before him, so that the gates/doors will not be shut"]


--Rev3:20 "if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."
[according to the context (re: the "churchES" [wherein is both believers and those who come in His name but who are not truly connected with Him--thus neither hot nor cold]), I believe these are who enter the Trib yrs, b/c they were not "saved" before the Rapture took place; they've been counseled to "buy of Me gold TRIED IN THE FIRE" that they may be rich... and clothed... they had actually been "poor, blind, naked" (in the "things WHICH ARE" section)]


--"After this I saw a door opening into heaven." Rev4:1



I've made a post before about the "LAMPS LIT" (and the "oil") connecting with:

--the "IN THE NIGHT [/in the NIGHT WATCHES]" time-period (FOLLOWING "our Rapture" when "the DOTL *ARRIVES* to unfold upon the earth--a day always starts at Sundown, when it pertains to Israel/Hebrew-reckoning; but note this is not a mere "24-hr day")

--Lev24 - "2 Command the children of Israel, that they bring unto thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamps to burn continually. 3 Without the vail of the testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it from the evening unto the morning before the Lord continually: it shall be a statute for ever in your generations."

--"ten virgins, which took their lamps"... "they that were foolish [5 of them], took their lamps, and TOOK NO OIL WITH THEM. But the wise [the other 5] took oil in their vessels WITH THEIR LAMPS."

--the message that WILL BE preached IN/DURING/WITHIN the trib years, is this: Matthew 24:14/26:13 ("this gospel of the kingdom"... "wherever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there SHALL ALSO THIS, that THIS WOMAN HATH DONE, BE TOLD for a memorial for her" [the "ointment" she used to anoint Him (His head and His body for His burial) would have contained "olive oil". See also: Ex.29:7 - "7 Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head [see Matt26:7 "and poured it on His head"], and anoint him."])



Okay, so?

This does not disagree with what I've put.



I've not challenged "the bride/groom component" and its "intimacy" (just that Matt25:1-13 is not speaking of it, but of the "VirginS/bridesmaidS [PLURAL]" pertaining to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" not "the MARRIAGE" itself! which are distinct items);

Recall, I've stated that the "WITH [G4862 - UNION-with] Him" word, that pertains TO US (at our Rapture) is NOT the same word we find here in Matt25:10, where the "5 VirginS [PLURAL]" went in "with [G3326 - accompany] Him to the wedding feast/supper/festivities" (where the guests [plural] also will be in attendance); see the DIFFERENCE? One pertains to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (and the PLURALS), whereas the other pertains to "the MARRIAGE [UNION]" itself (and the SINGULAR!)



No, I didn't.

I'm saying, the "MARRIAGE" takes place IN HEAVEN *before* His "RETURN" to the earth;

...thereafter the "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" / "the MEAL [G347; see Lk12:36-40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (returning WITH His Bride/Wife, as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom) THEN the meal [G347]] takes place on the earth (and *IS* the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom); He is not coming AT THAT POINT to "MARRY" the 10 or 5 "VirginS [PLURAL]," and those never lift off the earth. They've "lit the LAMPS" for the "IN THE NIGHT" aspect of "the DOTL" time-period that WE ("the Church which is His body") will NOT be present on the earth for (i.e. the TRIB years / the "DARK/DARKNESS/IN THE NIGHT" aspect). ALL of the "Lightbulbs" will have been taken OUT [/UP/AWAY] in the Rapture!

____________




We see the "24 elders" saying "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood, out of EVERY kindred and tongue and people and nation" way back at Rev5:9 before Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" by opening the FIRST SEAL), so why are you saying such a thing waits till Rev19 and His "RETURN" to the earth?? (since you are pre-trib, as I am)