FLAT EARTH

The Flat Earth model cannot (in my view) adequately explain the motion of the heavenly bodies, so anything utilising these as a proof or partial-proof struggles (to my mind).

They say that because half the earth is dark and half of it is in light all the time, and that this proves that flat earth is wrong.
Your respomse?

I would think none, since flora and fauna preceded human life on earth.

Maybe, or maybe God was still preparing the Earth for us. If flora and fauna were part of the needs, but if we didn't have to worry about death until sin entered... why was everything designed with the ability and need to eat? If you can't starve to death, why eat? Or were our bodies still able to emaciate and deteriorate as cells broke down, but we would be unable to die?

Or were foods a luxury back then?

God does not spell it out, does He? The body needs nourishment.

It cannot be said unequivocally that bodies broke down before death entered.

Right. They could break down. But just because a body breaks down or grows malnourished doesn't mean it dies.

Revelation DOES say that in the last days, men will seek death but it will flee from them. So we know such a situation is possible.

And to quote some of my favorite dark fantasy genres, you do see characters who have slept for thousands of years unnourished, weak at awakening, but not able to die in that fashion. (Granted fantasy is fantasy but it illustrates the point).

For all we know, if Adam didn't eat he'd just pass out until Eve shoved some applesauce down his throat later.

The Rev verse is about people wanting to die because of their tribulation.

The locusts were not given power to kill them, but only to torment them for five months, and their torment was like the stinging of a scorpion. In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, but death will escape them. And the locusts looked like horses prepared for battle, with something like crowns of gold on their heads, and faces like the faces of men.

We have two possibilities: 1) Any attempt to INFLICT fatal injury on themselves will be mysteriously disrupted via something (oops you got lucky and landed on a car and God decided to keep you from injury that would be fatal) or 2) You can sustain all the injuries you want, drink all the poison you want, and you still won't die but BOY will you be miserable!

I see a third possibility also, because many people at some point in their life find themselves in some situation that is so painful they do want to die, but fear death, and are too ------ (insert word of choice) to off themselves. And do you know, that fear of death is named as the reason people are in bondage to sin?

Fear of death is the reason people are in bondage to sin?
I'd need a verse to back that one up (of course I'm not meaning that confrontationally.)

You know I really enjoy these discussions with you. You're very honest, straightforward and understanding.

That third possibility though, actually that did come to mind after I posted. That people would seek it or want it, but in their mind might be put such a terror or fear to go through the pain of dying that it'd stop them.

That was actually what stopped me from making a choice like that. Since I couldn't make the thoughts stop because of the emotional wreck I was in, I allowed myself to go through the motions of preparing to do it up to the last point. It was "Fine if you really want it, do it. But if you don't really want this, get out of my head. Put up or shut up."

It was admittedly a dangerous gamble. But it was the only way to know if it was truly what I wanted or not. And if it wasn't truly what I wanted, I could forever expose it as a lie to myself and discard it, knowing for certain.

At that moment was when I collapsed on the kitchen floor as all that tensions left because in the end I just realized I was lost, terrified, and hurting.

And that was when I prayed for the first time in years and found myself properly returning to Christ. I got a call from some Mormon missionaries a few days later.
Mormonism itself was a false path, but it got me back into reading the Bible. Once I'd shed that shell and went back to basics, I took that final step back on track to a proper relationship with Christ and with God (and discarded the Mormon doctrines).

So I can relate to that 3rd possibility.

Interesting. Basically we have death to fear because of sin, but people won't hesitate to use sin to try to prevent death (look at all the people who have died in pursuit of a perfect utopian world or that false fountain of youth (abortions for stem cell research, etc).)

But if we fear death, it's all the more reason to turn to Christ. A constructive and holy solution instead of choosing an unholy and sinful one.

Oh more that. I meant "Why would they need to be able to eat from trees in the garden" in the first place if they didn't need to eat to stay alive.

I am very curious about your thinking on this...

You need to do more research as there are models that explain it perfectly.

Fear of death is the reason people are in bondage to sin?
I'd need a verse to back that one up (of course I'm not meaning that confrontationally.)

You know I really enjoy these discussions with you. You're very honest, straightforward and understanding.

That third possibility though, actually that did come to mind after I posted. That people would seek it or want it, but in their mind might be put such a terror or fear to go through the pain of dying that it'd stop them.

That was actually what stopped me from making a choice like that. Since I couldn't make the thoughts stop because of the emotional wreck I was in, I allowed myself to go through the motions of preparing to do it up to the last point. It was "Fine if you really want it, do it. But if you don't really want this, get out of my head. Put up or shut up."

It was admittedly a dangerous gamble. But it was the only way to know if it was truly what I wanted or not. And if it wasn't truly what I wanted, I could forever expose it as a lie to myself and discard it, knowing for certain.

At that moment was when I collapsed on the kitchen floor as all that tensions left because in the end I just realized I was lost, terrified, and hurting.

And that was when I prayed for the first time in years and found myself properly returning to Christ. I got a call from some Mormon missionaries a few days later.
Mormonism itself was a false path, but it got me back into reading the Bible. Once I'd shed that shell and went back to basics, I took that final step back on track to a proper relationship with Christ and with God (and discarded the Mormon doctrines).

So I can relate to that 3rd possibility.

I’m glad you didn’t do it. And I’m also glad you didn’t stay with mormonism.

I am very curious about your thinking on this...

As a simple example, using trignometry, I don't think the sun should drop as low as it does on the horizon. Or, if it did drop so low, it would be signicantly outside the circle of the Flat Earth, which doesn't make sense with observations from elsewhere (e.g. such as the sun being overhead at other locations).

The accepted distances of the Earth don't allow for the sun to drop so low on the horizon, even if it is as close as it is. There is something else at play, which is why I try to shy away from proofs of Flat Earth utilising heavenly bodies, as we don't understand them fully. As you would be aware, heliocentricity is likewise full of plot holes, but heliocentrists reject these and make up excuses (other theories) to explain them.