Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

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cv5

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It originally was to be 7 years long but Christ said it would be shortened and in Revelation we see that indeed it was cut in half and is only 42 months. So, there is no such thing anymore as a "7 years" period of tribulation.
Can prophecy be broken? Jesus Christ Himself says that it cannot be broken.
So tell me how the unassailable infallible Daniel ch 9 prophecy can be broken?
Jesus came not to destroy the law and the prophets but to fulfill.
You had better believe that Jesus Christ has not changed one iota of Scripture.
He will fulfill it. Impeccably and completely and that includes Daniel ch 9.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Can prophecy be broken?
It can be changed:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The Great Tribulation was one length of time and then it was decided to shorten it. There's nothing complex here. When we get to Revelation it is also no surprise that the total length of the Great Tribulation is 42 months, shortened down from the original of 7 years. Praise God for that decision.
 

cv5

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The rapture happens on the last day...jn6:37-44
The day of the Age of the Church. We are now living in the Day of Christ Jesus. Arguably the last day of the Church is the rapture. Or perhaps Paul is also speaking to the bema seat of King Jesus Messiah in some instances. But no doubt this is limited to the Church and the Church age.
Has zero to do with the 70th week of Daniel/Tribulation.

Phil 1:6
being persuaded of this very thing, that the One having begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Cor 1:8
He will sustain you to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Phil 1:10
so that you may be able to test and prove what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ,

Phil 2:16
as you hold forth the word of life, in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain.
 

cv5

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It can be changed:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The Great Tribulation was one length of time and then it was decided to shorten it. There's nothing complex here. When we get to Revelation it is also no surprise that the total length of the Great Tribulation is 42 months, shortened down from the original of 7 years. Praise God for that decision.
My dear friend it's time for you to hit the books! It is impossible to defy prophecy.
 

Truth7t7

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"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth."
Gods word clearly shows that the Church is instructed to enter their dwellings, until the hour of earth's temptation, indignation is past, Just as the passover of the Hebrews in Egypt,

No pre-trib rapture is seen or suggested, as many falsely claim.

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV

20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
 

GaryA

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I am at a loss to understand why everyone fails to see the obvious.
What is interesting about this statement is that everyone [else] thinks the same thing.

In my view, it goes like this...

There is never the slightest nuance or merest hint that any Christian will ever see God's wrath when He unleashes the Tribulation.
Why do people argue over things that no one ever actually says?

I know why. I will explain...

I don't believe I have ever - not once - seen anyone say that they believed that there would be Christians who would experience the 'Wrath of God'. Yet - on many, many occassions - I have seen people accused of saying such.

Why does this happen?

It happens because there are some who absolutely refuse to see that [the] 'Great Tribulation' and [the] 'Wrath of God' are two entirely different things. In their minds, they make an association between the two that is not present in the Bible. And, this association seems to take precedence over everything - as though it were a-definition-and-a-rule that is impossible to break.

It is [just] almost like:

"Not even God can break this rule!"

Remember the Titanic?

Now, it is not my intent to provoke anyone to anger. I am saying this to illustrate that - to those of us who do not assume every 'End Times' thing in the Bible that has anything to do with 'trouble' or 'pain' is automatically to be considered as being part of the Great Tribulation, the Wrath of God, or both - this is exactly what it looks like coming from those who seem to honor it above all else.

And, because they [seem to] believe that the two are dauntingly inseparable - many also believe that God "unleashes" the Great Tribulation as if it were part of His Wrath.

It is not.

In 'event' terms, the two have nothing in common - they do not overlap, and actually have 3.5 years of time between them - which is the time of the Two Witnesses and the Trumpet events - which the Two Witnesses [actually] bring about by their prophecy and testimony.

And, (still speaking in 'event' terms) neither one of them have anything [directly] to do with the 70 weeks of Daniel.

The Great Tribulation occurs in its complete entirety before the Second Coming, Resurrection, and Rapture.

The Wrath of God occurs in its complete entirety after Jesus appears at His Second Coming - after the Resurrection and Rapture. And, Jesus Himself "unleashes" it upon the world.

And, there are no Christians on the earth during the time that the Wrath of God is being "unleashed" upon the world.

All of these things - and much more - are exceedingly clear in the scriptures.

I am at a loss to understand why everyone fails to see the obvious.
:unsure:
 

GaryA

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God Himself says that the GT is Gods wrath.
Not so.

In all of the verses you posted concerning the Wrath of God, none of them have any specific relation to the Great Tribulation.

That is something you were taught to assume and believe.
 
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Luke 21 speaks to the 70 A.D. destruction AND the end time GT.
Matthew 24 is end time GT only.
Mark 13 is end time GT only.
The Church is never mentioned or even alluded to in ANY of these 3 accounts.

Time for you to hit the books my friend.......come back in a few months or even a few years.
You haven't the slightest idea of what you're talking about I'm sorry to say.

Nah, I am only using the side from Luke in this discussion. I am well aware of Matthew and Mark's version.
 

GaryA

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Luke 21 speaks to the 70 A.D. destruction AND the end time GT.
Matthew 24 is end time GT only.
Mark 13 is end time GT only.
All three speak to the same things - only, in different amounts of 'detail'.

They are three accounts of the same discourse.
 

GaryA

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Can prophecy be broken? Jesus Christ Himself says that it cannot be broken.
So tell me how the unassailable infallible Daniel ch 9 prophecy can be broken?
Jesus came not to destroy the law and the prophets but to fulfill.
You had better believe that Jesus Christ has not changed one iota of Scripture.
He will fulfill it. Impeccably and completely and that includes Daniel ch 9.
Jesus has already fulfilled Daniel 9 - impeccably and completely - 100%.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Gods word clearly shows that the Church is instructed to enter their dwellings, until the hour of earth's temptation, indignation is past, Just as the passover of the Hebrews in Egypt,

No pre-trib rapture is seen or suggested, as many falsely claim.

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Study how this relates to John 14:3 and the Jewish wedding ceremony.
Church eschatology is like a jigsaw puzzle. It is only after you assemble most of the pieces THEN the big picture becomes apparent.

As years go by and my understanding becomes more full the pretrib rapture is ever more clear and obvious. As far as I am concerned it is boilerplate doctrine equal to anything else.
 

cv5

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Zeph 2:3
Seek the LORD, all you meek of the earth,
Who have upheld His justice.
Seek righteousness, seek humility.
It may be that you will be hidden
In the day of the LORD’s anger.
 

cv5

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Nah, I am only using the side from Luke in this discussion. I am well aware of Matthew and Mark's version.
The vast majority of Christians wrongly exegete Luke 21. This failure gives birth to some of the greatest errors of end time eschatology.

 

Truth7t7

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The Wrath of God occurs in its complete entirety after Jesus appears at His Second Coming - after the Resurrection and Rapture. And, Jesus Himself "unleashes" it upon the world.

And, there are no Christians on the earth during the time that the Wrath of God is being "unleashed" upon the world.

All of these things - and much more - are exceedingly clear in the scriptures.

:unsure:
I Agree, God's Cup Of Wrath Is Poured Out After His Church Has Been Removed, At The Second Coming
 

Truth7t7

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The key to the 7 angels and the 7 trumpets and the seven stars is that they are the "messengers of the seven churches" that Jesus holds in His hand from Chapter 1. Unless one transfers knowledge from the Old Testament to unlock Revelation, no one can possibly understand it.

The trumpets are messages for the Church, not the buildings, but the individual believers who are the Elect, the ones who have the "seal of God in their foreheads" - the word of truth, the gospel written in their hearts and minds by God and make up the completed Body of Christ (the Bride) in the last days.

The "stars that fall from heaven to earth" are metaphorical messages to His Church on earth during last 7 years.

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars:...​
Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;​

The Greek word for bottomless pit described in Rev 9:2 is ABUSSOS which comes from the word bathos - meaning a place of depth of understanding and knowledge. Putting an alpha or "a" in front of it, converts bathos to the opposite meaning. This is the bottomless pit from Revelation - a place of NO KNOWLEDGE OR UNDERSTANDING . This is where Satan comes from, and it is where the false teachers and hirelings of our current "church" come from. And, I'm talking about almost every one of them.

These scorpions are told not to hurt the grass, or any green thing, showing they are not literal locusts, they are metaphorical.

God does not allow the false doctrines and false teachings of these church leaders to harm the true elect, who have the knowledge of the Gospel written in their foreheads (hearts and minds), but other than the elect, the rest of the earth will be completely devoid of truth, and filled with only lies. This is torture for the true children of God.

Obviously, this only scratches the surface.

But true is this, many, if not most, of the Saints going into the Tribulation will be put to death by antiChrist, many turned in by the leaders and members of the apostate churches, as Jesus said in Matthew. Only those who endure to the end, will spend eternity in the Kingdom of God with Jesus Christ:
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.​

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.​
I disagree with you interpretation

I believe scripture teaches that literal humans on earth will be tormented for 5 literal months in Rev 9:2-6

I believe you symbolism of these being false teachers is wrong
 

cv5

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Gods word clearly shows that the Church is instructed to enter their dwellings, until the hour of earth's temptation, indignation is past, Just as the passover of the Hebrews in Egypt,

No pre-trib rapture is seen or suggested, as many falsely claim.

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
The Church and the Church Age are bracketed by well defined and impenetrable boundary conditions:
1) The beginning: Pentecost
2) The ending: the Rapture

The very same thing could be said of the Tribulation.
1) The beginning: the man of sin revealed
2) The ending: the Second Soming of Jesus Christ & the institution of the Millennial Reign.

Arguably the precise ending could be said to be stated in Daniel 12:12...
“Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
 

cv5

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Indeed the Great Tribulation per se occurs when the antichrist breaks the covenant with Israel and the abomination of desolation is set up. Then begins the focused intentional shattering of the power of the nation Israel by war and conquest.


Dan 12:7
Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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The Church and the Church Age are bracketed by well defined and impenetrable boundary conditions:
1) The beginning: Pentecost
2) The ending: the Rapture

The very same thing could be said of the Tribulation.
1) The beginning: the man of sin revealed
2) The ending: the Second Soming of Jesus Christ & the institution of the Millennial Reign.

Arguably the precise ending could be said to be stated in Daniel 12:12...
“Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
There will be no pre-trib rapture, a false teaching of John N. Darby and promoted by Adulterer C.I. Scofield in his 1909 reference bible

The church will be present on earth as the (Two Witnesses) bring plagues of judgement upon the antichrist and unsaved world, a Remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, the (Sealed) Church is divinely protected on earth

My Lord Jesus Christ returns immediately after the great tribulation

1. Resurrection of all
2. Catching up of the living in Christ
3. Final fire in Judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire, as the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem are revealed in (The Twinkling Of And Eye) for the righteous saved,

4. The unsaved wicked are caught in the lake of Gods fire in judgement

There will be no Millennium on Earth after Jesus Christ returns, its fire time
 

1ofthem

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I would not be surprised if half of those who think they have it figured out have no oil in their lamps.
Once again another reference to the five foolish, I assume. Do you believe that those foolish was or even had another chance to be saved seeing it was the end? In my opinion, they were lost. They weren't saved. They didn't have any oil in their vessels. Didn't have any chance at repentance that I can see in the scripture because it was too late. The door had been shut unto them and he said he didn't even know them.

To me, the moral of the parable is to be prepared and ready because when the Lord comes back it is going to be for judgement. When he comes back and takes his children home and shuts the door it is the end.

I really am asking because I have never considered there was any hope for the five foolish? Just like the man with the talent in the next parable he wasted it and when he was judged, that was it. He never really trusted in the Lord and wasn't saved. He was judged because it was the end. He had no other chances then.