In the beginning

Thank you. ☺️

Hello saint and yes first off the creation was 7 days.

In John 5:45–47, Jesus says, “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” In this passage, Jesus makes it clear that one must believe what Moses wrote. And one of the passages in the writings of Moses in Exodus 20:11 states: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.” This, of course, is the basis for our seven-day week—six days of work and one day of rest. Obviously, this passage was meant to be taken as speaking of a total of seven literal days based on the Creation Week of six literal days of work and one literal day of rest.

Notice that time was created only for the creation out of the creation. God is not confined to time therefore what rebellion took place in heaven could of took place in a nano second if it were measured.

The light that you are referring to could be another way of expressing hope or a hope.
Jesus is that hope...express image of God. The light of the world which was before the foundations of the world.

God created out of nothing and it was spoken into existence.

Fair enough

Ye that is reasonable. I like the use of the terms 'likely" and "unlikely"... Thats how I see it. What most probable or likely.
Quite a few of us have ponderd that same thing... I think it is likely that Eves sin happened some time after day 6 or 7...

Nut when did the fall happened? I had never really considered the possibility that it hasn't happened yet until someone here got me wondering. The book of Rev is a prophecy. Maybe the fall had happened when it was written...

Very real possibility. Interpreting Rev is near impossible

did I say he was kicked out straight away ?
And I have read the KJV ...

yes, sometime thereafter.

The fall relates to sin entering into the world . Thorns and diseases ,death covid 19 ect .

The beasts: In the OT the Bible gave a prophecy regarding two beasts that fought each other.. They hard horns and all.. The Bible then gave an interpretation of the symbology.. One of the beasts was pointing to the Greek empire and the other was media Persia. And it was talking about Alexander the Greats conquest..

Here i will quote the passage.. Have a read..

Daniel 8: KJV
3 "Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last. {4} I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

{5} And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. {6} And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. {7} And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

{8} Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. {9} And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. {10} And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. {11} Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. {12} And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and prospered.

{13} ¶ Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? {14} And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. {15} ¶ And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. {16} And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. {17} So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. {18} Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. {19} And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. {20} The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. {21} And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king."

Ok So the vision was given to the prophet David of two beasts .. One beast the Ram had two horns one taller then the other which came up after the first..

Media Persia was an empire that formed with the alliance between two different peoples.. The Medea and the Persians.. The Medes where the first to rise to power ( the shorter horn ) but later the Persians became powerful joined the Medes and became the dominant power in the alliance ( Taller Horn )

The second beast was a Goat with only one Horn Grecia ( which is Greece ) this empire only had one group of people as it's power the Macedonian / Greeks .. The Greeks under Alexander the great smashed the Media Persian empire and Alexander continued on His way expanding the Greek empire untill he died ( i think it was in Afghanistan or India not sure.. But he died at the point where the greek empire was at it's largest. So when the greek empire was at it's strongest Alexander died..

So the horns in prophecy represent individual nations and they represent the King ( leader ) of that nation.
The beast represents the Actual empire..

In the end times there will be a beast with 10 horns.. Therefore it will be an empire with 10 nations being the powers that rule the empire the horns also represent the Kings ( leaders ) of these 10 nations..

This beast is both mentioned in the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation..

Daniel 7: KJV
7 "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. {8} I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things."

AND:
Revelation 17:
"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

So the beast will be the empire and the empire will be ruled by 10 nations.. Later a small horn will come up and displace 3 of the other horns so in the end the beast shall have 8 horns.. The woman who sits on the beast is called a mother of harlots.. Now this woman represents a false religious movement.. The true church of Jesus in the same book is called the Bride ready to be united with her betrothed Jesus.. Symbolically a caste bride represents true Christians and a Harlot woman represents a false religion..

Hi there,
One big reason people find Genesis particularly, and all of the Bible generally, difficult to understand is because they do not accept the meaning of Psalm 78:1 which tells us to give ear to God's Law (the Bible) and then says that the law is a parable. Most persons in this discussion are not realizing this. Most persons read Mark 4:34: "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples." and think that this verse only has to do with certain limited instances of Jesus speaking in parables. Rather, it is cluing us in on how to interpret the entire Bible. The scripture here is saying that nothing is said that is not in parables. It is saying that the literal text we read in the Bible has a hidden mystery meaning that Jesus only expounds to his disciples. That is why the same chapter of Mark tells us: "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:" What this means is that when those who are without (non-believers) encounter the Bible, it is a parable that they do not understand. To those who are saved, it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, and this is a gift of his own will and grace.

Let us take a look at Corban's observation for example. He noted a few comments ago:

1. Genesis 1:1 is a complete stand-alone sentence in the Hebrew. The word "creation" ("bara" - Heb.) is not used again until God made the living creatures.

Good studying Corban.

We learn in verse 1 of Genesis 1 that God created the heaven and the earth. Perhaps the terms 'heaven' and 'earth' have parable meanings. People tend to assume that it is a literal verse which is describing planet earth and the sky or space above. But the Bible says that heaven is God's throne and the earth is his footstool. I think when you look at God's throne in the Bible you find Jesus in the midst of it. Further, Jesus is repeatedly in the midst of his people in the Bible. The true believers are called heaven in Matthew 24:31: "they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." So heaven is the true believers with Jesus in the midst. Further, in the Bible, we see God being worshipped there. He is on the throne in people's hearts as it were. Anyway, this is not a picture of the planet's sky. Rather it is a picture of God's living people, his living creation. That is why we find the term 'bara', which, as Corban, has pointed out, is used for living creatures.

Three heavens are identified in Scripture.

Many translations of Genesis 1:1 say, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Thanks Magenta,

Many people have adopted the notion that there are three heavens. In part, they consider Paul's mention of the 'third heaven' in 2 Corinthians 12:2. However, I see things differently. The Bible uses the term 'third' to talk about the true believers. For example: "And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God. " My take is that the term 'third heaven' is term meaning 'the true believers' heaven', written in parable language as it were.

Just pertaining to the subject of light coming from darkness . Does looking at it through a prism of the gospel inspire any line of thinking ?


“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-5‬ ‭

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the light is called good , which means the darkness necessitated being seperated from good is what constitutes evil.

“This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭

“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭

“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:8-11, 13-14‬ ‭

there is spiritual light and physical light the light of Christ is about spiritual light which is good , and spiritual evil is represented by darkness so they like the righteous and wicked are seperated in the end were seperated in the beginning. Spiritually before the world was created there was spiritual light that the gospel is meaning to restore

I think the overall thought I have about your subject is that Jesus created all things in the beginning , when God spoke his nature of all powerful creator manifests

science tells us it took billions of years , I believe God can speak and do a billion years of work in a moments time , so I personally believe it took six days to create everything that exists in creation. Doesn’t mean I’m right but faith tells
Me God doesnt require a span of time to accomplish what we can see would take eons to accomplish he can do a billion years work in a moment if he wills it and speaks it

I don’t think we could ever prove it either way but it’s something we each would have to consider and believe about the timeframe it took .

I believe looking at the spiritual and also the physical creation helps understand it but I’m no one official or a professional or anything those are
My thoughts

sorry for the length , and wish o could have put my thoughts on better order I just find this aspect of scripture fascination when you consider the gospel first and then look back to the beginning

The heaven most people think of as heaven is God's abode, as you have stated

That is the third heaven: the throne of God.

The 2nd heaven is outer space... the universe, including our galaxy.

The 1st heaven is our immediate earthly atmosphere

You may find this explanatory page with relevant Scripture verses helpful

God didn't create out of nothing, God is Eternal, thus he has always been. To say there was nothing is to say God is not eternal. God is a Spirit, God is love. Thus the Anti-Christ spirit (or antithesis to God) is eternal also. No one acted it out until Satan rebelled.

P.S. For another who asked, the Light was created during the first day which lasted 9.2 billion years. The fourth day saw an ORDER to the Days/Seasons etc. via the Earth and Moon crashing into each other, thus the two planets that were the same size became one huge planet (earth) and a satellite (moon) which keeps or earth orderly, without the moon life on this earth would be almost uninhabitable, save maybe around the equator, and the weather would be unlivable basically. Look on YOUTUBE, the Earth without a Moon. So, the moon and earth clashing, then the earth gaining a stabilizing satellite, gave us our orderly days, months, and years. It doesn't mean God created the light on the fourth day, it means God created "THE SEASONS" on the fourth day and thus gave order unto the climate.

This fallen Angel is the Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17, that is why on earth he has no descriptive CROWNS in Rev. 17, whereas the Dragon of Rev. 12 has 7 CROWNS and the Anti-Christ of Rev. 13 has 10 CROWNS (He's over Europe).

I have a blog that I am going to post in a bit, just got to go retrieve it and copy and paste it. Its relevant to the original post, (OP).

So, I got this question from an atheist, below and proceeded to give an answer, which is what I do, try to win souls daily.

Do you believe that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old according to science, or 6000 years old according to the Bible?

I as a 30 year Christian try to think outside the box of normality. Is the universe 6000 years old? Is the universe 13.7 billion years old? Do these two questions clash or is there a translation barrier !! This is how I think. I try to bring both poles of thought towards each other starting with the facts. We know the universe has to be over 6000 years old because we see light from stars that are millions of light-years away, so we would have to be naive to think the universe is 6000 years old.

Onward to what Genesis says about creation, does it really say the universe or earth is 6000 years old? I don’t think it does, I think its a mistranslation of a primitive language that had only around 4000 words at the time Genesis was written, whereas the English language has 500,000 words. So many of the Hebrew words were used in multiple ways. For instance, the original meaning of the Hebrew word YOWM (Day) means “to be hot” and there are at least 50 other meanings listed in strong’s concordance’s lexicon of Hebrew words. A year, a month, a period of time, chronicles, evening and morning (Beginning and end), age, perpetually, long, some time, whole, X required season, continually, etc., etc., well you get the point.

YOWM or “To be hot”, what would this mean and why was it used since God is supposed to have given Moses the first five books of the Torah. Well when the universe was spoken into existence by God, it took 400 million years for the first stars to form. So the first Day (to be hot) was the Evening (Darkness, 400 million years of darkness) and the Morning ( The stars started forming) and the first day was a “period of time” and in my opinion, it lasted from 13.7 Billion BC until 4.5 Billion BC (9.2 Billion years) when the Sun & Earth were formed. So let's take a second and look at the Bible and the WMAP research and see if this matches.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now look below at the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP, see picture below) which launched in 2001 and won many awards, they mapped the whole universe out. Below as we see, you had Quantum Fluctuations which I contend is God, then you had Inflation, followed by Afterglow, followed by 400 MILLION YEARS of Darkness !! Just like the bible says in verse 2, and there was Darkness on the Face of the Deep !! God's word is perfect, it is us who are confused. DARK AGES Mapped out by the WMAP, followed by what? The first stars forming at the 400 million year mark. Verse three says what? and God said “Let there be light” God is right again. We are looking at Creation from God's POV, no man was there of course and with God, he is not subject to time, he created time for us via this universe, but He is eternal and thus was never created. Remember the verse, a thousand years is like a day and a day like unto a thousand years unto God. In other words, God lives in the past, present, and future all at the same time.


So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The Universe becomes Transparent to Light. The Microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.

The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning!! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off.

The second day (period of time) of course would be from the Earth & the Sun's formation until the grasses and trees came forth on the Third day (period of time) then on the Fourth day it seems God Set the Seasons or placed the Moon in its perfect orbit where our seasons are not strange, but orderly, I know the moon and earth are supposed to have collided. Anyway, that set the seasons, times, years, etc., etc. Mind you, all of these ideas are rudimentary observations. A theory of how the things God says in His Holy Word and the Science thereof can both be factual. They are not meant to imply everything went down just so and in like manner, the dates of course are guesstimates, I wasn’t there.

On the fifth day God created the Sea animals/birds and whatnot, were the Dinos created here or with the land animals? The fifth day lasted 300 to 400 million years or so. On the sixth day around 300–350 Million, BC God created the land animals. During this period of time, the Dinosaurs became extinct about 70 million years ago. Then during this “TIME PERIOD” (6th day) God decided to create man 6000 or so years ago. Some might protest that men have been around much longer, but I offer this up, where is the data? Men are record keepers and we don’t have proof of men going back further. Now as per “MEN” being observed by scientists to have been around X Number of years, I never said animal-like men weren’t around, I stated Human Beings were created 6000 years ago when God placed His spirit in us, and thus we are now immortal in that our souls can not die. We were at that point in time “Created in God's Image”. The other fossils and bones mean nothing because Scientists have no way of testing for God imparting His spirit into mankind and thus creating “Human Beings” with powerful intellects.

On the Seventh Day God rested, which only means He ceased vreating the Heavens/Earth/Mankind/Animals. So when we see stars and galaxies created today, it was ordered forth 13.7 Billion years ago. So it's not necessarily either-or. We need to start looking at things with an open mind, be we an atheist or a Christian.

P.S. Just something to think about. Einstein’s theory of relativity is in the very first verse of the bible, relatively speaking…LOL.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning (TIME) God created the heaven(SPACE) and the earth(MATTER).
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This blog was posted in 2017.

Hi. I appreciate your considered response and have that same belief that we don't know everything and could be wrong.
That's why I like to work in probabilities...

So you're saying that it was God's light that flushed away the darkness of evil which is what I was pondering... Most people look like they refuse to even give it a thought... The issue then would be this;
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
Would God create the earth that way? "Without form and void"? With darkness on the face of the deep?
I don't know but that's one reason to contemplate the possibility that there was some time gone by between verses 1 and 2.

If was writing it and it was on the same day I would begin the second verse with "and". But its starts with "now" which also indicates that there may have been some time gone by...

Its interesting to ponder but ultimately no one can say for sure which is why I dislike it when people claim such infallibility

I think on a forum like this especially about our beliefs we all are convicted and sometimes we come off as we think we’re infallible , but it’s passion and often a bit of blindness on either parties part possibly a sprinkling of pride here and there or we’re going through a growth spurt and get a little high minded but the lord knows how to put us in check he has ways to reach us each one

I like to present and discuss scripture hoping to Glean something new often just one new thought or detail sends us in a direction where we find treasures to store in our secret places

I believe that creation because it is material , produced a by product of darkness and the light itself is everything that is our savior and Lord.

I believe that Jesus was before the world ever was and he spoke and the worlds existed from what was nothing “ darkness” the bi product of good , is evil the bi product of light is dark

in order to have something be good , there needs to be a standard of contradiction or measure of what is good. The darkness is necessary for there to be light .

have you considered this part of scripture pertaining to creation

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's:

but the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 17, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people:

but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭60:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:

and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭

“I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning;

even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭48:3, 6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there are actually two creations in scripture one that we exist in now , and one that he has promised , we walk by faith in the promise as we journey through this doomed creation our attention and affection is above where the church and the promises live

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I find this subject fascinating I’m sorry I’m off base lol