In the Truth God is our safety

Jewish fish .

I made it very clear that they were not preachers or teachers when Jesus told them to leave their boats. If your plan was to tire me, then you have succeeded.

All scripture points to the life, death and resurrection of Christ as the fulfillment of all the promises in the OT, The gospels shows this and teach it, Peter teaches it, John teaches it

All scripture points to the life, death and resurrection of Christ as the fulfillment of all the promises in the OT, The gospels shows this and teach it, Peter teaches it, John teaches it

You are saying the 12 taught it so much that, when Jesus was actually going to be crucified, Peter was so disillusioned that he denied knowing Christ 3 times?

They also taught the resurrection of Christ as the fulfillment of all the promises in the OT so much that they didn't camp outside the tomb on Sunday, counting down to his resurrection?

They also taught it so much that when the ladies told them Jesus had risen, they did not believe?

So much for that doctrine.

All of Scripture points to the redemption in Christ, the Gospel IS Jesus, his, life death and resurection.


---- I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel.” Gen 3:15

--- And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. Gen 22:8

--- In this manner you shall eat it: with your belt fastened, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. And you shall eat it in haste. It is the Lord’s Passover. 12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord. 13 The blood shall be a sign for you, on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague will befall you to destroy you, when I strike the land of Egypt. Exodus 12:11-13

---- He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth. Isaiah 53:7


----The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29

---- but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. (1 Peter 1:19)

---- Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 1 Corinthians 5:7

---- He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 john 2:2

----For God has done what the law,weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,


---- And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Rev 21:14


----“Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. Isaiah 45:22


All scripture points to the life, death and resurrection of Christ as the fulfillment of all the promises in the OT, The gospels shows this and teach it, Peter teaches it, John teaches it and Paul teaches it.. all one gospel message that salvation can be in no other than Christ.. The OT saints looked forward to the promise, the NT Christ fulfils it.

Hmmm?

I could be mistaken, and if I am, then I will gladly apologize, but it seems to me that by selectively quoting what phil36 said, you've greatly altered his actual intent.

Here is a fuller reading of what he said:

Seeing how all of phil36's New Testament quotes were from the writings of Peter, John, and Paul, it appears to me that this is what phil36 was actually referring to when he said "Peter teaches it, John teaches it and Paul teaches it".

Anyhow, I'll wait for phil36 to chime in himself before possibly commenting any further on this particular point.

Hi live4Him,

You have it right. It seems to be guojings modus operandi, to misquote😒.

So what you actually meant is they taught it after the cross.

Thanks for clarifying, you can now answer the question, "What gospel did they actually teach before the cross then, as you claim during the gospels of Matthew-John"?

Who are the ''they'' you are refering to?

Peter, John, the 12

Well first off you have totally misrepresented what I said in my post. But we can put that aside.

(Luke 4)

17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”[a]
20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”


Also, through faith asked something along similar lines so I will give you that reply here also.

I believe this is were you go wrong. We know that the gospel call started in Jerusalem, so the majority of brothers in Christ at first were Jewish.. so that straight away disproves your theory of 2 gospels one for Jews and one for gentiles.

There was a 3 year or so transition period between Jesus' earthly ministry and the cross, and then the spreading of the one true gospel from Jerusalem out to the whole world where it still being spread.

Paul teaches us that in Christ we gentiles have been included into the citizenship of God's people.

There is one Gospel and one people of God.


For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)




You see as I said before all scripture points to Jesus. His life, death and resurrection.

Now the as with throughfaith, the burden of proof is on you to show that Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul and that there are two separate peoples of God. BTW, throughfaith never answered..will you?

I have presented to you evidence that Peter and John did not believe that Christ would die on the cross and be resurrected on the 3rd day before it actually happened.

But yet you continue to claim that the 12 were preaching about his "death and resurrection" before the cross?

Are you contradicting yourself? You believe its possible for one to preach to others something he doesn't even believe it himself?

Thats very true they did not understand the full meaning of Jesus' teaching at that time. Their misunderstanding does not nulify the truth of Jesus' words as you seem to be suggesting. So this does not prove your point that Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul, nor that there are two separate peoples of God.






Again, this is a mis-characterization of what I have been saying. I'll say it again: All scripture points to the life, death and resurrection of Christ as the fulfillment of all the promises in the OT, The gospels shows this and teach it, Peter teaches it, John teaches it.

Does the OT point to Christ.... Yes yes and Yes...see post no:155

Do gospels teach Jesus' Life death and resurection? Yes yes and yes.

Did Peter teach this in the NT... YEs yes and yes.

Did John...Yes yes and yes.

Did Paul Yes yes and Yes

I suppose from your triple usage of Yes, you are actually saying that you believed Peter could be preaching that Jesus would die on the cross for sins and be resurrected on the 3rd day, before the cross.

And at the same time, you believed he could be disillusioned about Jesus's impending execution on the cross, until he denied knowing Christ 3 times.

Am I correct in my understanding of what you are saying?

Thats very true they did not understand the full meaning of Jesus' teaching at that time. Their misunderstanding does not nulify the truth of Jesus' words as you seem to be suggesting. So this does not prove your point that Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul, nor that there are two separate peoples of God.






Again, this is a mis-characterization of what I have been saying. I'll say it again: All scripture points to the life, death and resurrection of Christ as the fulfillment of all the promises in the OT, The gospels shows this and teach it, Peter teaches it, John teaches it.

Does the OT point to Christ.... Yes yes and Yes...see post no:155

Do gospels teach Jesus' Life death and resurection? Yes yes and yes.

Did Peter teach this in the NT... YEs yes and yes.

Did John...Yes yes and yes.

Did Paul Yes yes and Yes.







Nope, read above.


Now the burden of proof is upon you to show that Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul and that there are two separate peoples of God.

So tell us where does scripture say that Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul? and that there are two different peoples of God?

Col 4
2¶Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;

3Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

4That I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak.

Col 1

27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles ; which is Christ in you , the hope of glory:

I love how scripture interprets scripture.



Pauls gives us the answer.

Col 2:2

I want them to be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have complete confidence that they understand God’s mysterious plan, which is Christ himself.



(Eph 1)

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.


Paul's tells us what the mystery is... Jesus himself. Jesus is the gospel. Just as scripture testifies.


I'm afraid, you have not proven anything yet. The burden of proof still lies with you.. Where is it in scripture that Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul . And that there are two peoples of God?

Nope not correct. As explained in above posts.

As I said the burden of proof is on you to show that Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul and that there are 2 seperate peoples of God.

I notice the problem with your translation again.

2That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

3In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

4¶And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

Paul has already said what the mystery is just a few verses earlier . Let the scriptures within the letter and the immediate context say ,first , the meaning before we go floating off to other books.
Here it is again .

Col 1.
Remember chapter 1 comes before chapter 2 .
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross , by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21¶And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gosepl which ye have heard , and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof i Paul am made a minister ;

24¶Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his bodys sake ,which is the church :

25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is GIVEN TO ME for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26Even THE MYSTERY which hath been HID !!! FROM AGES AND FROM GENERATIONS , BUT NOW !!!!! is made manifest to HIS SAINTS :

27To whom God would MAKE KNOWN what is the riches of the glory of this MYSTERY AMOUNG THE GENTILES ; WHICH IS !!!!! CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY , :

I love how scripture interprets scripture.



Pauls gives us the answer.

Col 2:2

I want them to be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have complete confidence that they understand God’s mysterious plan, which is Christ himself.



(Eph 1)

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.


Paul's tells us what the mystery is... Jesus himself. Jesus is the gospel. Just as scripture testifies.


I'm afraid, you have not proven anything yet. The burden of proof still lies with you.. Where is it in scripture that Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul . And that there are two peoples of God?

Hi throughfaith.

The mystery indeed is Christ as Paul says. I am not sure how you can make that say that Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul considering the life, death and resurrection of Jesus is the 'mystery'.

We see this mystery unfolding from the very start of scripture:

Gen 3:15 - Did Adam and eve know it was going to be Jesus the son of God.. Possibly not but they believed the promise.

Gen 12; John 8:56;Gal 3:7 -- Did Abraham know exactly how the promise would play out ? possibly not but what does Jesus say - our father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”


Then we can go on to Moses, david etc etc. As we get closer and closer the picture is revealed more and more until God reveals this 'mystery' That is as Paul says Jesus.


This mystery was revealed in Israel and then as time went by out to the whole world. Jews and gentiles alike in Christ Jesus, one people of God.

So we don't have a problem that the message went to the Jewish people first but a big part of the mystery was the full inclusion of gentiles. Just as Paul tells us in Ephesians and elsewhere:


For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)