Faith without works issue .

Paul spends 4 chapters on justification, and you are going to try and make a case using James' 4 verses. That's not too bright.

Abraham was justified by faith in the sight of men. James makes a 'see-faith' argument because he is refuting those claiming faith but have nothing to show for it.

Romans 4:2-3 (KJV) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:5 (KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Paul spends 4 chapters on justification, and you are going to try and make a case using James' 4 verses. That's not too bright.

Abraham was justified by faith in the sight of men. James makes a 'see-faith' argument because he is refuting those claiming faith but have nothing to show for it.

Romans 4:2-3 (KJV) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:5 (KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Which verses are you thinking of where Abraham was Justified 'before men '?

You said //Paul spends 4 chapters on justification//
Yes to the body of christ . What if James is not writing to the body of christ ?

You are unaware that fellow male Jews addressed one another as brethren?

That's simply not the case here.

Let's try this again:

James chapter 1

[1] James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
[2] My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
[3] Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

James not only begins his epistle by identifying himself as "a servant of God AND OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST", but he then talks to his "brethren" about "THE TRYING OF THEIR FAITH".

Do you honestly believe that James was referring to Judaism here?

If you do, then you're terribly deceived, as I'll continue to document.

[12] Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Do you honestly believe that James was telling a bunch of allegedly unsaved Israelites that they would "receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him"?

Again, if you do, then you're terribly deceived.

[18] Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Do you honestly believe that James was telling a bunch of allegedly unsaved Israelites that God had begotten them "with the word of truth"?

For crying out loud, man, unsaved Israelites have either rejected "the word of truth" or haven't yet heard it.

James chapter 2

[1] My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

"My brethren".

"THE FAITH of OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST".

Please, I beg you by the tender mercies of Christ, tell me that you can understand what that means.

It means that James' BRETHREN that he was addressing here had THE FAITH OF OUR...OUR...OUR...LORD JESUS CHRIST.

For crying out loud, man, THEY WERE CHRISTIANS!

[5] Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
[6] But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
[7] Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

Again, please tell me that you can understand what that means.

By what WORTHY NAME were James' BRETHREN CALLED?

By the WORTHY NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

Got it?

Only CHRISTIANS are "rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him".

James chapter 3

[8] But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
[9] Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

James spoke to his brethren about "God, even THE FATHER", and, as I rightly noted here earlier, NOBODY CAN HAVE THE FATHER WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGING THE SON:

"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. " (I John 2:23)

Tell me/us, if you would be so kind, how in the world these allegedly unsaved Israelites could have possibly been blessing "the Father" when they couldn't have had the Father without the Son?

James chapter 5

[7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
[8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

Do you honestly believe that James was telling a bunch of allegedly unsaved Israelites to "be patient therefore, brethren, UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD", who, according to your absolutely ridiculous beliefs didn't even believe in "THE LORD"?

Seriously, I'm honestly not taking any pleasure in publicly exposing your egregious error, but I'll continue to do so as long as you continue to poison this forum with the same.

If this next one doesn't seal the deal as far as your error and the error of your buddies here are concerned, then I honestly believe that there is little to no hope for any of you:

[14] Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
[15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Do either you or your equally as deceived buddies honestly believe that James was instructing a bunch of allegedly unsaved Israelites to "call for the elders of THE CHURCH, EKKLESIA, EKKLESIA, EKKLESIA, in order to be anointed "with oil IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" whom they supposedly didn't even believe in?

For crying out loud, man, James already plainly stated that JESUS CHRIST was OUR LORD to these his BRETHREN.

Here it is, AGAIN:

"My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons." (James 2:1)

Not that I haven't clearly demonstrated the egregious error of you and certain others here already, but there's also this UNDENIABLE TRUTH to consider:

NONE OF THE EPISTLES WERE WRITTEN TO UNBELIEVERS!

NOT A SINGLE ONE.

Look, here's the deal:

You are presently believing and promoting heretical teachings, and, if you persist in the same, then know that you'll most certainly give an account for the same before Jesus Christ one day.

I couldn't care less if you or any of your other terribly misguided buddies here like me because I'm not the issue at large.

You are misrepresenting the word of God to people here, and I can assure you that God doesn't look favorably upon what you are doing.

You really need to humble yourself before the Lord, and repent before both him and those here whom you've been seeking to mislead.

Should you do the same, then you'll not only find forgiveness with God, but I also suspect that those here who are already quite aware of your error will graciously receive you.

The ball is in your court now.

I sincerely hope that you make the right choice.

No idea why are you agitated.

I am just saying that Jews refer to fellow Jews as brethren.

So when you quoted James 1, the 12 tribes are all Jews

I'm not the least bit agitated.

Concerned for your well-being?

Most sincerely.



You, I, and a host of others know that you're saying a lot more than just that on this forum, and that your comment that I replied to is more of the same, so let's not pretend otherwise.



Technically-speaking, they're not all Jews in that the word "Jew" is derived from Judah, Jacob's fourth son, and it originally referred to the southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin after the kingdom was split. That said, the term is normally used in a much broader sense to describe all Israelites today.

Anyhow, James was definitely addressing Israelites, and, more specifically Israelite CHRISTIANS.

When he sacrificed his son Isaac, it is before the world reading/hearing Scripture.

You posted four times questioning me before I had answered your first point which tells me that you are not serious about discussing the matter...only your agenda. If you think you're gonna keep me hoppin uh uh. Good bye.

When he sacrificed his son Isaac, it is before the world reading/hearing Scripture.

And...?

You know, you're pretty funny (not really).

Earlier today, on this very thread, you told me, and I quote:



Now, after I refute the latest piece of antibiblical nonsense that John146 posted and you gave a thumb's up to from...wait for it...JAMES CHAPTER 2, you still won't admit your error?

Your problem is PRIDE, friend, and here is the only solution:

James chapter 4

[6] But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
[7] Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
[8] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
[9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
[10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

And...?

You know, you're pretty funny (not really).

Earlier today, on this very thread, you told me, and I quote:



Now, after I refute the latest piece of antibiblical nonsense that John146 posted and you gave a thumb's up to from...wait for it...JAMES CHAPTER 2, you still won't admit your error?

Your problem is PRIDE, friend, and here is the only solution:

James chapter 4

[6] But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
[7] Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
[8] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
[9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
[10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

You left off verse 5 ?

What about it?

You want verse 5?

Sure, here it comes:

James chapter 4

4] Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
[5] Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

For starters, one could only rightly be accused of being either an adulterer or adulteress IF THEY'RE CHEATING ON THEIR SPOUSE OR IF THEY'RE IN A MARITAL RELATIONSHIP.

Of course, seeing how I've already clearly documented that James was writing to CHRISTIANS, their husband or bridegroom, spiritually speaking, was JESUS CHRIST.

Furthermore, although verse 5, at first glance, may seem a little confusing because of how it was translated into English in the KJV, if we look at other translations (or if we're simply led by the Holy Spirit), then "the scripture" that James was referencing becomes more apparent.

Here are some examples of how this verse reads in other translations:

"Or do you think Scripture says without reason that he jealously longs for the spirit he has caused to dwell in us?" (NIV)

"Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?" (ESV)

"Or do you think that the Scripture says to no purpose, “He jealously desires the Spirit whom He has made to dwell in us”?" (NASB)

Etc., etc., etc.

In other words, in context, it appears that James was reminding these CHRISTIANS that God is a Jealous God (Exod. 20:5, 34:14, Deut. 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, Josh. 24:19), and that they shouldn't provoke him to jealousy via "the friendship of the world" (James 4:4).

Paul, while writing to the CHRISTIANS at Corinth, similarly warned about provoking the Lord to jealousy, when he said:

I Corinthians chapter 10

[19] What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
[20] But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
[21] Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
[22] Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

Now, what are you going to do with all the verses that I shared last night which prove. conclusively, that James wrote his epistle to CHRISTIANS?

Are you going to continue to ignore THIS FACT or are you going to repent of your currently-held erroneous beliefs and embrace the truth?

If in doubt go to modern conflicting translations that make the verse gibberish . Because they also think James is speaking to Christians.

Kjv
Reads as it plainly reads .
3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts .

4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

5Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain , The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? ( Clearly not the Holy Spirit )

6¶But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

7¶Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

8Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

And a Christian can't draw any nearer than he already is indwelled .

My posts which conclusively prove that James was writing to CHRISTIANS (you know, the ones that you evade) are there for anybody to read, and your stubborn refusal to admit the same is only a reflection of your own misguided spiritual condition at this time.

I'll leave it at that for now.

Which they have been refuted .

lol.

They haven't even been addressed, so don't kid yourself.

Here, I'll just give you one sample:

James chapter 5

[14] Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
[15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Tell me/us, if you would be so kind, why James instructed these allegedly unsaved Israelites to "call for the elders of THE CHURCH" in order to be anointed "with oil IN THE NAME OF THE LORD", whom he had previously called "OUR Lord Jesus Christ" (James 2:1).

The underlying Greek word which is here translated as "church" is EKKLESIA.

Seriously, pal, all of your stubborn pride, evasiveness, and butcherings of scripture aside, you're simply in error.

Humble yourself before the Lord, even as James instructed you to, and draw near to God.

It's your only hope.

Yes were all admiring your humble nature and gentile spirit .

Oh, so God's foreordained timetable has been altered?