Faith without works issue .

And just remember then the next time you quote ' there s neither Jew nor Greek ' when a ' difference comes up ..Seeing as it looks like you keep moving the goal posts.

In other words, you won't admit that what you said was wrong.

No surprise here.

What goal posts have I allegedly moved?

The real issue is your ignorance.

"Neither Jew nor Greek" doesn't mean that nobody is a Jew or a Greek.

Instead, it simply means that IN CHRIST one's natural heritage means nothing.

Seriously, how did you ever become so brainwashed?

I honestly cannot imagine that you came to your present belief system without somebody brainwashing you into the same.

i say that because you seemingly have no understanding as to what scriptures actually mean.

Anyhow, I need to head out for a while, so somebody else can refute your never-ending nonsense while I'm gone.

When he did it there was no one there ,and of course it was written down much later. I believe he was justified by God . Before God in what he did.

Here is when Abraham was first justified...

And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
(Gen 15:6)

It really isn't rocket science.

JUSTIFY
OT Words
sadaq [tsadaq, 6663]
tsadaq occurs around forty times and means "justify," "declare righteous," as well as related nuances in a variety of contexts.

Here is when Abraham was first justified...

And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
(Gen 15:6)

It really isn't rocket science.

JUSTIFY
OT Words
sadaq [tsadaq, 6663]
tsadaq occurs around forty times and means "justify," "declare righteous," as well as related nuances in a variety of contexts.

What goal posts have I allegedly moved?

The real issue is your ignorance.

"Neither Jew nor Greek" doesn't mean that nobody is a Jew or a Greek.

Instead, it simply means that IN CHRIST one's natural heritage means nothing.

Seriously, how did you ever become so brainwashed?

I honestly cannot imagine that you came to your present belief system without somebody brainwashing you into the same.

i say that because you seemingly have no understanding as to what scriptures actually mean.

Anyhow, I need to head out for a while, so somebody else can refute your never-ending nonsense while I'm gone.

When we talk about works accompanying faith or proving faith, I've always wondered what kind of works we are talking about.

Hebrews 11 have various examples of work that you seek.

So in summary of reading Hebrews 11 the works that accompany faith is trusting God and His promises?

As James would say "faith without works is dead", without those works, their faith would not have saved them.

For example the case with Abel, if he did not offer the correct sacrifice, his faith would not have saved him. That was why God told Cain after that incident in Genesis 4:6-7

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Notice carefully that God did not tell Cain he should have "believed well"?

But rather, he told Cain to do well, which in the context of Genesis 4 and Hebrews 11, is to offer the same sacrifice as Abel did.

If Cain were to do that, God would have accepted him, just as Abel was accepted.

And here we are back to my question. What these works are. I'm talking, practical examples in everyday life.
I see much discussion and debate and faith and works, yet I can't recall much about what these works actually are, so essentially, we don't even know what we are talking about.

So are you saying
Abraham was justified when he had righteousness imputed to him?

///Here is when Abraham was first justified...

And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
(Gen 15:6)/// Different words .. Its imputed .

And here we are back to my question. What these works are. I'm talking, practical examples in everyday life.
I see much discussion and debate and faith and works, yet I can't recall much about what these works actually are, so essentially, we don't even know what we are talking about.

For us, unlike all the OT saints described in Hebrews 11, our righteousness comes from Christ's work on the cross.

So you are correct, no works are involved for our righteousness on our part (Romans 4:5), we just need to believe by faith that Christ has done all the works required.

That is why David calls us blessed in Romans 4.

It doesn't much matter what the works are if the works are not grounded in faith from a justified person.

For us, unlike all the OT saints described in Hebrews 11, our righteousness comes from Christ's work on the cross.

Faith without works, is like a car without engine...

I love it how people try to use an act Abraham did decades after God declaired him righteous as the means of his salvation.

I am suprised God had to wait so long before abraham offered his son to know if his faith was justified or not.

I guess thank God he did not die in between those times, he would have been lost forever,