50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

DW's exegesis is *horrible!* He may be a fine Christian man, but his communication skills are wanting, perhaps due to the subject matter. It really takes a pretty good mind to be able to fit a theology into the Bible where it isn't warranted!

Should it be any surprise to you that DW embellishes his commentary with so many parentheses, brackets, bolds, italics, etc? He is not letting the Scriptures speak for themselves, but is trying to direct you away from the simpler meaning. He is trying to *fit* his beliefs into the passage.

What surprises me is that you say this muddy explanation is "clear as crystal." You have got to be kidding!!

As for you, you shouldn't rely on him. You should rely on your own reading skills, which are clearly capable of grasping what Paul is saying, without messing with the word meanings. Paul is saying that some got it wrong, declaring that Jesus had already come. Paul was saying Jesus cannot come unless the Antichrist is revealed 1st.

Easy peazy.

If it happens at night. And heaven does put it on cnn....it will be a surprise to all left behind upon awakening to cnn.

I can see them resurrecting ufo silly mess as we speak.
It is a clue.
They will say people were abducted.
Interesting twist.....will the children of the left behind go in the rapture?

Do you really believe this fantasy science fiction? That story is both crazy and hilarious! I watch these "Rapture" movies out of pure entertainment. Do you really believe that millions of people will be snatched out of their cars, out of their clothes, out of piloting airplanes, etc. and the world will just think it is just some big alien abduction? Maybe you've been reading too many fantasy novels or watching too many sc fi movies?

I do believe there will be a "Rapture" of sorts. After all, it did happen to Enoch and to Elijah. And it happened to Jesus too. However, instead of this being a major news article on CNN, this is going to be a war to end all wars, the battle of Armageddon. It will be a global war, replete with nukes. People will likely be dead up to a billion people. Most Christians will have to be resurrected. The few who survive will indeed to caught up and transformed. But it won't be all this pre-Kingdom drama.

It is a global event - some places will be experiencing daylight, some night

Jesus spelt that out - some people will be working in the field, some people will be in bed

you offer nothing

Just assasinate your opponent.

Go back and re read your post.
Has 100% conjecture and false framing of myself.

You are totally out of gas sir.

Your defense of your position is indirect.

You have no verses or DIRECT DEFENSE.

Again
..i maintain my position of making you go against the bible

here is a pink elephant for you.

Rev 14 has Jesus harvesting from a cloud with a sickle .
1 Thes 4 has the dead rising first.
See that word "FIRST"?

IT Means BEFORE THE LIVING.

PSSSST....as in rev 14 harvest of the living.

Postribs need that scripture removed.

BTW... are there any postribs that actually address this?

I mean do they skip it ?
Reframe it?

Yes...both

Could be.
Depends on what direction he comes and how fast he sweeps the planet.

If he keeps pace with the dark side of earth he will come at night 100%

Why is there an underlying assumption that the antichrist cannot begin his marking and/or beheading campaign until he is revealed?

DW's exegesis is *horrible!* He may be a fine Christian man, but his communication skills are wanting, perhaps due to the subject matter. It really takes a pretty good mind to be able to fit a theology into the Bible where it isn't warranted!

Should it be any surprise to you that DW embellishes his commentary with so many parentheses, brackets, bolds, italics, etc? He is not letting the Scriptures speak for themselves, but is trying to direct you away from the simpler meaning. He is trying to *fit* his beliefs into the passage.

What surprises me is that you say this muddy explanation is "clear as crystal." You have got to be kidding!!

As for you, you shouldn't rely on him. You should rely on your own reading skills, which are clearly capable of grasping what Paul is saying, without messing with the word meanings. Paul is saying that some got it wrong, declaring that Jesus had already come. Paul was saying Jesus cannot come unless the Antichrist is revealed 1st.

Easy peazy.

Then address the verses.

They are bible.

You can not get a pass by dodging and generalizing

If he comes at a defined hour, that would be impossible.

Lol. TDW Is a superb biblical scholar. His posts are near to sublime. I would estimate's his IQ in the 135 to 140 range.....undoubtedly a competent and intelligent man. He has incredible range and grasp of the Scriptures and knows the whole counsel of God it's amazing. What's more is the sheer hard work is putting into his exegesis and treatments. It's humbling to say the least....

You're not gonna like the sound of this........but he has been cleaning your clock time and time and time again. And not just you. It's not even close and it's actually quite embarrassing to watch it happening.

I am curious about the double visitation of Jesus - I've never seen it anywhere

You sound like you have an IQ of zero. Why don't you start thinking for yourself instead of pandering to DW. If he's as smart as you say, he isn't going to be fooled by your cheerleading tactics. You're just putting him up to arguing for you.

You sound like you have an IQ of zero. Why don't you start thinking for yourself instead of pandering to DW. If he's as smart as you say, he isn't going to be fooled by your cheerleading tactics. You're just putting him up to arguing for you.

Read rev 14

It is not the rapture or the second coming.

I see this all the time

The postrib made up " only one coming cause we said so"

Rev 19 White horse coming

Rev 14 coming

1 thes 4 coming

Acts 1 coming

Mat 24 taken/ left coming

Mat 25 bride groom coming

Read them all and see it is IMPOSSIBLE to make them into 1

NOBODY can honestly force fit it.

Nobody.

It only works in their circles with reframing and omission.

Which is Not bible at all.

No, I've addressed it in the last month! I view that "before" as a declaration that the dead will not be neglected when the living are transformed into new bodies. In other words, this is not an itinerary in which 1st the dead rise, and then later, at 2:00 AM, the living join in the celebration.

No, this is focused on the fact people naturally think of the living as being the 1st to enjoy a new transformed life. But Paul is correcting this. The dead will not be left out. They *1st* have to be resurrected, to join the living in their celebration. All will be transformed into immortal bodies *simultaneously!*

Remember, all of this happens within a single second of time! In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, this will happen. When an eye beholds light in the heavens, a twinkle appears on the eyeball. That is how fast it happens. As Christ begins his descent we are all suddenly there with him, descending to earth with him. The dead are 1st raised to life, which is simply the calling up of departed spirits from their place of isolation. Then we are all joined to our new immortal bodies at the same time.

Why you would want to separate the glorification of the dead from the glorification of the living I don't know, except that maybe it fits your Pretrib scenario? But my understanding has always been that the dead and living both experience the transformation together!

Read rev 14

It is not the rapture or the second coming.

I see this all the time

The postrib made up " only one coming cause we said so"

Rev 19 White horse coming

Rev 14 coming

1 thes 4 coming

Acts 1 coming

Mat 24 taken/ left coming

Mat 25 bride groom coming

Read them all and see it is IMPOSSIBLE to make them into 1

NOBODY can honestly force fit it.

Nobody.

It only works in their circles with reframing and omission.

Which is Not bible at all.