To all of you non flat earthers.

FE cannot settle that point i made
"Its own tiny orbit"... Thats different to what FE says and makes no sense...
FE says there is only one orbit around the north star.

Im watching the crux to the south in front of me...
Brazilians are watching the crux to the south behind me...
View attachment 228369
And many others are watching it from all different angles... That 25 degrees doesn't not account for people seeing it behind me
The way it points, its orientation, its elevation are all irrelevant to this fact

Optical illusion is actually the only way one can explain it... An optical illusion that cannot be demonstrated
Its similar to what Moses said...

How about this then... On the FE model we should be able to see the dipper, but we can't...
Why not???

Stars which are in the South celestial hemisphere are never in the North celestial hemisphere, and vice-versa. The tilt of the Earth is stable, and the North Star is always effectively "up" from the North hemisphere of the Earth. Similarly, the Southern Cross is always "up" from the South hemisphere.

From PC123's diagrams and explanations, I suspect that the Southern Cross is useful to navigators in a different way than the North Star is. The latter's angle above horizontal always tells the observer their own latitude; at the North pole, the North star is at nadir (vertical); at 45 degrees North latitude, the North star is at 45 degrees to the horizontal, etc. That is only possible if the North star is sufficiently far away from Earth; a flat earth model where the stars are part of the "firmament" and only about 3,000 miles above the surface is unworkable, because the angle to horizontal at the equator would be about 26 degrees, not 0 degrees.

According to history, the crux can be seen in Jerusalem every 20,000 years. It was last seen as a daily visitor 2000 years ago, and is not due back in 18,000 years. But what do the experts know? How do you know how far away the firmament is?

The whole creation size should be able to be known if one knew how to calculate 8000 years as the 4th dimension of time as a factor to the length, depth, and height. It would be a cube, and time along with the length of the equator gives us some clues. But we still do not know how high each level is, or if they are perfect 3rds. Heaven, earth, and under the earth being the 3 levels. The firmament is not heaven, but part of earth.

And you never addressed the point that on a BE the earth spins twice as fast under the crux. That point is given in all the articles I have read, not my imagination. That means that it travels around the edge of a FE twice as fast as the sun does. Thus giving the illusion it is always there.

The best I can do at the moment...

my parents are Portuguese... Good surf there in Portugal.

Huh? How could part of the Earth spin twice as fast as another part? That’s physically impossible.

Then the crux orbits around the north pole twice as fast as the sun does.

Someone claimed the earth rotated once a day under the crux. But that would be impossible to rotate twice as fast for the crux as for the sun. So the only explanation is that the crux orbits the north pole. It cannot orbit the south pole. No star system can rotate that fast through space even by current theory.

How silly are we sometimes? And how much stick do we give each other? All in good fun

Um, no. Methinks you misread something somewhere. The Earth rotates once per day; its rotation defines a day.

Because the Earth rotates once per day, everything visible in space appears to move across the sky once each 24-hour period (other than artificial satellites). That goes for objects in either celestial hemisphere.

And you never addressed the point that on a BE the earth spins twice as fast under the crux.

The crux can tell the time at any hour of the day, unless that is a lie.

There are 24 hours in a day. A clock only has 12 of those hours.

That means the crux is at each point on the clock twice. Which means that it has to do a circle twice a day. How does it do that circle twice as fast as the sun does?

You're jumping to conclusions instead of thinking things through.

Just because some source claims that the crux can tell the time of day, it does not mean that it is like a clock. IF one can use the position of the crux as a time indicator (I don't know whether this is true or not), then it would indicate the time its own way, not necessarily like a clock does.

A standard clock has twelve hours, but you cannot tell whether it is day or night merely by looking at the clock.

The crux is like every other constellation under which the Earth spins once each 24-hour period. Because the crux is near to the celestial pole, its transit will be circular, once each 24-hour period. So, the crux is not at each point on the clock twice, and it doesn't do the circle twice in 24 hours.

Maybe, before you go off on yet another tangent, do some critical thinking with the information you have. Or, get some better information.

Well I guess no one looks for the crux during the day time, who knows?

The crux can tell the time at any hour of the day, unless that is a lie.

There are 24 hours in a day. A clock only has 12 of those hours.

That means the crux is at each point on the clock twice. Which means that it has to do a circle twice a day. How does it do that circle twice as fast as the sun does?

@Timtofly @Dino246 @Moses_Young @GaryA @surfer14

OK guys... How about this one...

Why can't we see the dipper from down here?
And why can't you guys up north see the crux?

Shouldn't we be able to see all the stars if this FE model were correct?

@Timtofly @Dino246 @Moses_Young @GaryA @surfer14

OK guys... How about this one...

Why can't we see the dipper from down here?
And why can't you guys up north see the crux?

Shouldn't we be able to see all the stars if this FE model were correct?