How We Can Tell If We Possess The Agape of God

I absolutely manifest the same spirit of Christ when I condemn false doctrine as He did. But, I'll stop short of calling the OSAS crowd "of their father the devil", as He called the Jews who had the same stubborn spirit.

If OSAS people were alive and heard Jesus preaching, they'd condemn Him for "being so mean". LOL

I don't find brevity offensive...it's actually quite appealing. What I find objectionable are so called "Christians" who don't even know how to practice good manners - something of which even the unsaved are capable.

Manners? My goodness, man. It is apparent from your back-and-forth nattering that you are unaware of the mechanics of the fallacy of the excluded middle, and because you are unaware thereof, you have employed it in a vain defense of your position.

You can either go and do your homework, read up on the fallacy, rethink your present position, and avoid employing the fallacy in the future, or you can continue employing it and find your arguments dismissed for their invalidity.

Is that less offensive to you? Are you "less wrong" because the message is delivered with many words instead of few?

A "saved person" doesn't break God's commandments (1 John 2:3-4 KJV). All you do is insist we don't have to keep the Ten Commandments.
Wicked people don't cast aside salvation because they've never recieved it. Only the Saints who cast aside salvation, which is the result of removing their will from the side of God's will.
The trembling belief of demons is not going to get anyone anywhere, for it is belief that leads not to surrender.

OSAS teaches we may by the dead faith of an unsurrendered heart obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

In my opinion, you seem to be implying what you said you will stop short of saying though. Do you believe Christians who believe in OSAS are lost? Do you believe there are true Christians who believe in OSAS?

[/QUOTE] Since there's no such thing as a "pre-trib Rapture", that means the church is going to have to "endure to the end" if it is to be saved.

Remember Jesus told the church of Smyrna to "be faithful unto death and ye shall recieve a crown of life"? That was the Church to whom He was speaking.

Since there's no such thing as a "pre-trib Rapture", that means the church is going to have to "endure to the end" if it is to be saved.

Remember Jesus told the church of Smyrna to "be faithful unto death and ye shall recieve a crown of life"? That was the Church to whom He was speaking.[/QUOTE]
Your formatting didn't come through clear.
(concerning the identity of group 1) Was that a yes?

What "fallacy"? The only fallacy in here is the "false equivalence fallacy" of making "agapao" the same thing as "agape".

I believe anyone who deliberately breaks God's commandments and teaches others to do so is called "least" by those in heaven who keep God's commandments...

Why do people think grace is a License for humans to do that which no angel nor any other creature in the universe would do?

The "many" in verse 12 and those who "endure to the end" in verse 13 are both groups of saints because the saints are saved in verse 13 and the "many" possess "agape", something which is not once attributed to the wicked, despite 27 NT books written in Greek.

Many who believe in OSAS also teach or say one should live righteously. To believe in eternal security is not teaching to break commandments of God. Those are two different things.

Here's why the Two are a SUMMARY of the Ten:

If you love God, you'll keep the first four, and if you love your neighbor, the last six.

Of course, the OSAS and Antinomianist crowds want the Two to REPLACE the Ten because Jesus said they were "new" commandments, and they stick their head in the sand when we remind them that Deuteronomy 6:5 KJV and Leviticus 19:17 KJV prove they go all the way back just as the Ten Commandments do.

Since you don't like being told anything, and you won't do your homework, you will remain in your stubborn ignorance.

Eternal Security is in a surrendered relationship with Jesus, and nothing else. If we choose to withdraw our surrender, we cease to "abide in the Vine", and our fate is to be cast into the fire and be burned.

I thought you were going to talk about why you find Historicism objectionable...

On what basis?

I see.
Are you contending that this salvation is from hell rather than the events surrounding verses 12 and 13?

So in your view, someone that follows the first two commandments follows the Mosaic 10 already? Wonderful.


If you have love in your heart, you will naturally do good works without having to make a conscious decision. Like wheat growing will naturally produce fruit. We can make a conscious effort to train ourselves to nurture that love, and by that we improve our yield. But you can't produce true fruit simply by merely following a direction to abstain or partake in a fleshly behaviour. Jesus constantly called the Pharisees hypocrites and vipers for following the letter of the law at the expense of the spirit of the law.

We are saved by grace and not by works, but that does not mean that we don't also perform works

What would this "withdrawl" look like?

You cast away salvation, the salvation of God. The only salvation on offer is the free gift of eternal life, you curl your lip and call it OSAS.

You don't have this eternal life, you don't believe in it. See you teach a lying gospel. The gospel doesn't say "surrender thy heart and thou shalt be saved"

In olden times God gave His laws and insisted upon His people obeying it, that was His covenant. But the people broke this covenant so God did away with it. He made a new covenant.

You insist on going back to the old covenant, not that anybody can for it was only a temporary quick fix, that's what you like.

You don't want to have done once and for all with sin, you like it too much, you love the 2-3 days of self control in obeying commands followed by that delicious surrender into fleshly pleasure when you fall. Which apart from the cross you inevitably will.

You are on the sin merry-go-round and you keep falling off it.

We believe in victory over sin through the cross.