Sabbath

No... I just disagree with your interpretation of Paul. I ultimately believe we do not take the warning in 2nd peter 3:16-17 serious enough.

Thats not what Christianity is about man. You can still do your best, you will still fall short. Doing that causes you to be cursed.

How is a christian to be encouraged when he continues to look at the law. and if they are honest with themselves understand they fall short?

They can/t unless they water down the law or decieve themselves that they are keeping it.

God requires perfection. If you are not perfect. You have failed to keep the law. Those are moses words and pauls. Both who were inspired by God himself

Your argument is with them my friend, and God, not me


God defines righteousness. If you keep the whole law yet STUMBLE in one area, Your guilty.

For all have sinned and fall short.

To be righteous is to be PERFECT. as Jesus himself said. why do you call me good (righteous) no one is good but God. Your not God my friend. Neither am I!



No one can follow the law. No one has and no one will. Mess up one time and your done. You have failed to keep the law.

But. Non believers can obey commands.

Thats your problem. your trying to mix commands with the law. CO0mmands are far above the law my friend.





Or to put it in the words of scripture

Heb 10: 4 for by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified

col 2: 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Gal 3: 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I can continue but I hope you get the point



BUT YOU CANT FOLLOW THE LAW!

Wake up man, You are decieved. Paul spent a lifetime apposing people like you who try to impose on others the burden that the jews could not handle. Obeying the law.

The law was not given to show you how to live I have proved that.



Salvation is by Grace.

It is NOT OF WORKS

If you teaching we can lose salvation. or must maintain it by obeying the law then you are teaching works.

If you are not. and are teaching sanctification comes by the law. Your still wrong. The law was for the sinner, not the believer.

We can go back and forth forever.... nothing gets accomplished. If you want to exchange perspectives on specific verses one at a time.... we can do that.

After digging into Paul's writings, I ended up believing that Paul was not actually teaching that the law no longer applied, but A combination of mistranslations, misinterpretations, misrepresentations, etc. has lead so many into believing in the very thing we were warned about by Peter.

Hasting's Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics.
"We assume, because we have been raised with an anti- Torah bias, that the text must be talking about Sabbath, but that is a pure assumption not required by the text. To say that the verse must mean, that if we are honoring the Sabbath as God commands numerous times and places throughout Scripture (not a gray area), that those who do so are weak in the faith, is an interpretation coming from an anti- Torah bias that has been imposed on the text, but which the text does not require."

to you of course since you do not know where you stand spiritually but come here and want to tell people who do know where they stand, that you understand the Bible

how can you understand the Bible if you are unsure of your spiritual status?

don't come back with answer your questions because you do not have one legit question. first and foremost, why should anyone believe someone who is unsure of where they stand with God?


so tell us why you are not sure of where you stand spiritually?

and then tell us how it is that while you are not sure, you address others and think you have something to say that is worthwhile?

you do not like Paul's letters because they disagree with your Sabbatarian agenda

first you complain he is hard to understand and when that does not work, you state you 'dug' into them and then disagree with what Paul said

he asked the Galatians who had bewitched them since they had begun in the spirit and now were working in the flesh

you disagree with Paul.....actual Christians do no disagree with Paul

We can go back and forth forever.... nothing gets accomplished. If you want to exchange perspectives on specific verses one at a time.... we can do that.

Ultimately, The Father was referred to as the MOST HIGH god.... So I put Him above all. His instructions are found in the first covenant (old testament) writings... So that is the foundation of my beliefs. I believe in and accept the Messiah BECAUSE I believe that what he taught was inline with The Father's instructions (law).

There are many verses in the first covenant about certain laws being FOREVER... and that there would be false prophets that come to steer people away from The Fathers instructions. If ANYONE (including Paul) was teaching that the law was no loner valid, I would adhere to the warnings in earlier scriptures and consider them a false prophet.

After digging into Paul's writings, I ended up believing that Paul was not actually teaching that the law no longer applied, but A combination of mistranslations, misinterpretations, misrepresentations, etc. has lead so many into believing in the very thing we were warned about by Peter.

Irrespective of whether or not Paul taught that the law no longer applies, I believe that modern Christianity subconsciously holds Paul's writings above The Messiahs teachings as well as The Father... More like followers of Paul than followers of Christ. There is no way I would believe that if Pauls writings weren't in the bible that Christianity today could have drawn the conclusion that The Messiah's actions and death were to result in a change in keeping his Father's laws.

Your missing the whole point my friend

I am here to show how one becomes christlike. How one becomes obedient. and how we walk our lives.

Your here to say it is by the law. I have shown (proved) that is not the case.

You can believe whatever youwant. As long as you attempt to say it is by mosaic law in which we are sanctified (or eventually saved) myself and many here will appose you. Because like paul warned against. You are trying to push something that believers are no longer bound to. That was never given to help us. and had to fight his whole ministry, because these people taught as you do.

SIn is sin is sin.

If you commit adultry. You are a sinner, this is whether your saved or not

The command (do not commit adultry) does not tell you. How to keep this command or All the possible ways of breaking this command.

Thats WHY the command was not for the believer. BECAUSE IT CANT HELP US. it can ONLY CONDEMN US, Thankfully, because of the redemption in Christ, it CAN NO LONGER DO THAT, so the command has fulfilled its purpose.

Now lets go to the new way. And get away from the law. WHICH CAN NOT HELP US.

Your trying to put believers under law. Thats dangerous man, To them and to you. People are warning you. And trying to show you the correct way to become Christlike

Yes that is true. You can worship on any day of the week, I was only highlighting that God blessed the seventh day specifically so we can rest from our work. Although we have rest in Christ we still have to go to work during the week and go about various duties. But Sabbath rest requires that we stop all of that for one day and commune with God as a memoriam of creation. Of course that doesn't mean you can't go to church on Sunday, but the problem with that is that it is a day decided by the Roman Catholic church to be the new Sabbath. They havesaid that themselves, I'm not putting words in their mouth. They themselves have said that Saturday is the true Sabbath. It's up to you what you do with that information. I don't mean to judge you, I only mean to inform. I am not in any place to judge you or anyone else in what you do, no one is. I apologize if I have come across that way, as I am a sinner, and I have no right at all to judge the actions of others. I don't know who you are at all, and I'm not gonna say that just because you worship on Sunday you're a horrible person or you don't read the Bible. No, I'm not gonna say that at all. If that's the way that you interpret the Bible then so be it. You seem like a wonderful person and you believing that doesn't change that fact at all. God bless you.

We can go back and forth forever.... nothing gets accomplished. If you want to exchange perspectives on specific verses one at a time.... we can do that.

Ultimately, The Father was referred to as the MOST HIGH god.... So I put Him above all. His instructions are found in the first covenant (old testament) writings... So that is the foundation of my beliefs. I believe in and accept the Messiah BECAUSE I believe that what he taught was inline with The Father's instructions (law).

There are many verses in the first covenant about certain laws being FOREVER... and that there would be false prophets that come to steer people away from The Fathers instructions. If ANYONE (including Paul) was teaching that the law was no loner valid, I would adhere to the warnings in earlier scriptures and consider them a false prophet.

After digging into Paul's writings, I ended up believing that Paul was not actually teaching that the law no longer applied, but A combination of mistranslations, misinterpretations, misrepresentations, etc. has lead so many into believing in the very thing we were warned about by Peter.

Irrespective of whether or not Paul taught that the law no longer applies, I believe that modern Christianity subconsciously holds Paul's writings above The Messiahs teachings as well as The Father... More like followers of Paul than followers of Christ. There is no way I would believe that if Pauls writings weren't in the bible that Christianity today could have drawn the conclusion that The Messiah's actions and death were to result in a change in keeping his Father's laws.

judeaizer play book 101=

try to make Paul contradict Jesus, and completely ignore the fact that Paul was a envoy to the gentiles, who were not ever under the Law...

The term itself "christlike" means being like him. What did he do? He followed and taught his Fathers law.

I don't believe that you proved that at all. We just have different interpretations of Paul's writings.... and I don't believe anyone will get to a resolution by just dropping 20 scriptures at one time. If you want to address specific verses, if both people are open and the most important thing is truth, than its better to address these verses one at a time.

Sin has a definition... its breaking the law. Adultery is just one of many sins... we ARE told how not to commit adultery. The problem is trying to disregard the first covenant (old testament) which is where we are told this. The instructions found in the renewed covenant are referencing first covenant laws. So when we disregard the first covenant, we leave all these new testament teachings open for interpretation.

Lawlessness (sin) is the curse and what is dangerous. Keeping law has always been and will always be a blessing.

I've never heard of a Sabbatarian agenda movement... but ok. Paul being hard to understand was not me complaining.... Ii was quoting scripture... again 2nd peter 3:16-17

I don't know why your even concerned enough to look into my profile, but if you're assuming that I don't know where I stand spiritually based on a drop down that only gives you three options... I can see how you would draw that conclusion.

How did he follow Gods commands?

I believe this is the question!! and this is what we are trying to discuss.



You already stated the purpose of the law is NOT what Paul said it was.

So how can I believe we will be able to resolve any other issues.

If paul says the purpose of the law is A.

And you disagree.

What more can be said?

[QUOTE="SophieT, post: 4622974, member: 303760"

you mention Calvin in your post (partial quote above) and yet even Calvin had this to say:

• “The external observance of the Sabbath rest is a Jewish ceremonial ordinance and no longer binding on Christians.

QUOTE]

I wasn't suggesting that that it is. I was merely pointing out that Romans 14 is not an applicable text for supporting the idea that Sabbath observance is no longer required.

If your definition of "Christian" is just "Follow of Christ"... Then yes, I believe in following him and although I fall short, I live a life attempting to do that.

He kept the sabbath, feast days, etc.

What is the specific Paul verse you are referring to?