Has a lie crept in to our bible Does God allow demons to torment people

All the disciples were killed by satan, save John.
Most all the apostles also.

Where do you get that? James death is recorded in Acts. Herod had him killed. According to tradition, the Romans killed Peter.

Where do you get that? James death is recorded in Acts. Herod had him killed. According to tradition, the Romans killed Peter.

If you look at demon activity that Christ pointed to, you find that Christ said demons were behind things we account as physiological or psychological problems such as blind and deafness or epilepsy. We need to be more aware of the truth of demon activity, not less aware.

I scream, you scream,
We all scream for ice cream.

Let's not let the left have any part of this. It just wouldn't be right.

@Pilgrimshope @JaumeJ @1ofthem @Absolutely @AandW @Mem @Dino246 @Magenta @Lucy-Pevensie @glen55 @Gideon300 @Runningman @Ahwatukee @tourist. @Blade @Rolly @Nehemiah6 @presidente @posthuman @Kidron @azsheepdog @DrGuyPhD @Icedaisey @GRACE_ambassador @CS1 @Ogom

Hi to you beautiful Christians, May the lord bless you and keep so I just found an online spell checker, hope this helps. The thing i didn't like about the online spell checker was it gives Satan a capital letter,, oh well... what I can say other than there seems to be a lot of that going on here,

This topic is a bit of a pain really, so many people claiming they know more than others, thus claiming they know Satan better than other people, when they really do not, its seems to get derailed in many places this thread, A Christian getting seen as bad for pointing out the ways of Satan, has to be a crime for me. Wow, you know we really are in trouble, any ways.


Some people will go on the defensive about predestination, I know some people will get really upset about that one, and some consider it heresy. But to be honest people protect the nature of God in many ways (with I can't see God being that way) but don't protect the nature of God in other ways, the amount of times I hear this is a doctrine from Satan not from God is high. Especially the doctrine that says a Christian can lose their salvation. Or if I was to ask does God allow Christians to be oppressed by demons, most Christians will say no God does not allow that one, demons do that one on their own accord. Then you say hang on a minute, didn't you say demons obey God. There seems to be a stark contrast for many issues in our bible that leave you puzzled, like this one you mentioned God created everything. But yet this suggests otherwise.

1 In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

This is indicating darkness was already here above and there's indication in other places (like Jesus saying Satan was a murderer in the beginning), but there's also a stark contrast to suggest otherwise in other parts of the bible, (like i the lord created calamity, but then there's a stark contrast for that, (like i the lord is not the author of confusion). There's seems an argument a confliction for everything, a sadistic nature is something Christians would say is a doctrine from Satan, but at the end of the day who really wants knowledge of all good and evil ?,,, talking about darkness all the time unless you know how to overcome fear and see the light really can start to mess with your head after a while. Perhaps the reason why we get oppressed by evil in the form of temptation or demonic attacks, demons do it to bring their fear or their talk into the world, through us, they rule out of fear, and then It's not so much we have come to know all knowledge of Good and evil of our own accord but something that is forced upon many. We see the preachers who become obsessed with the hell speech and preach it over and over again, witnessing someone that way inclined is like witnessing a devil. I guess the reason why so many churches just do prayers and read Good parts only from the bible.

Demons oppressing Christians and making them worry and nervous is something most Christians will become protective of and immediately support that person, but to a demon that is glorified temptation, because he knows when the person become full of anxiety or nervous there more likely to sin out of fear, The highest reason for sin i would say is proving they have to do something that there not scared etc. (glorified temptation i call it, and the bible is riddled with acts of sin that in my opinion has been committed out of Glorified temptation. Satan glorifies temptation in the person he is tempting in many ways, like how beautiful it would be to experience drugs, or are you afraid to lose your life. Do you call your self a man ? Are you scared ? The pleasure of good feeling is your reward.

Or in other cases, demons totally gain control of a person's mind. Even children, they hate children, and can have a child so mentally ill by the time they've finished with them that the child takes their own life. Because after a demon has got a child to mess up they then scare them with punishment, out of a fear a child kills them self or run away. Children can so easily develop a trauma or panic (nervous disorder).

Demons don't really care about that, and I have witnessed it.

As for predestination, it's a topic that's good in some ways but horrible in other ways. It can sound quite cruel to some, as well can be soul-destroying and demoralizing for a person. Personally, and this is my belief, that the horrible side of predestination comes and happens to a person who is demon possessed(and there are billions of people I fear are possessed). This is my belief that Satan and his cronies have all knowledge of abilities and supernatural powers as written in the bible, and are able to set the course of a persons' life they possess(but not on the authority of God). it's not until the person hands his life over to Jesus, it is only then you come into a better pre destination. There is something to pr destination because I've had the dreams in my sleep that come real before today.

that whole post makes me go AAAAAAAARGH

so let me just address a few erroneous things




God is not playing a game with anyone. Genesis makes no such statement. that appears to be conjecture on your part and nothing more



yet Jesus said that God alone is good. musta been perfect then. you sure do take liberty with scripture



more conjecture. if what you say is true, why then did God say this: 2 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand rand take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden sto work the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. Genesis 3

was God just being dramatic? or did He create robots....



the devil is also our adversary. it seems you are heading towards the following quote and trying to lead people there by submitting a form of logic that does not adhere to the biblical account...yet more conjecture



I could really get harsh here reading that some person actually would write we are God's puppets.

yet, more just plain dumb and erroneous insinuating yourself into the Bible

Jesus calls us His friends. we are not puppets.
No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because all things that I heard from My Father, I have made known to you. John 15:15

Jesus was talking to His disciples, but we are told that the Holy Spirit will also lead us into all truth, and make known to us the mind of the Father

you are so far off understanding what happened in the garden, the role of the devil and our own free will given by God, that you have managed to come up with your own version of events both in the garden and our relationship with God

we are not puppets. if that is your understanding, I guess you can blame God for everything you do...good or evil. That, would be the logical conclusion to your statement about puppets

Well, here I AM!

Doesn't seem like many have took up the cause to debate this nonsense.

But seriously I or no one else has to defend God's character. He is more than capable of defending it himself.

God is a God of many characteristics and has many personality traits.

He is loving, just, good, holy, and all that is good and honest.

He is also a God of wrath, judgement, and justice.

Like I said, he has many characteristics; however, "evil puppet master" isn't one of them. Anyone who thinks it is, needs to sincerely pray for wisdom and review the scriptures.

All that you have stated in your post is the main reason that scripture tells us we need to study to show ourselves approved and rightly divide the word of God. The scriptures are spiritually discerned so reading through it with a natural/carnal eye and just taking a few verses to try to form a doctrine leads to confusion and misunderstanding.

I don't claim to know it all. I'm still learning, but I can debate each one of the points you have made simply be reading the scriptures and taking the whole message together.

1 Giving a law isn't evil nor does it create evil. Evil was created by the individual (satan/man/whoever) that did not follow God's commandment. God didn't make evil. He allows it to stand for now, but we know what he is going to do with it in the end. He does allow the evil to grow with the good, but in the end he is going to separate them and destroy evil. He isn't tempted of evil and doesn't temp any man with evil. He is not rooting for evil or working with it. He is going to destroy it in the end. Again, we gain this understanding by taking in the whole scriptures and rightly dividing the Word of God. (Spiritually discerned)

2. Predestined doesn't mean what Calvin taught. Calvinist have a few misapplied scriptures to try to uphold the false, evil, heresy that God creates some folks to burn for no other reason than he wants to. Many study the scripture in vain trying to hold up some perverse theology. In order, to up hold that heresy they have to completely twist the other scriptures because their position cannot be rightly divided with the other scriptures.

God is not an evil puppet master!

"The thing is, there are those who shall read this and go on the defensive.
Because they believe in the Bible. But oddly enough they can't accept what God tells them about himself."


website i came across this morning:

https://www.prophecyrefi.org/ , https://www.prophecyrefi.org/about-us/

Some people will go on the defensive about predestination your right, i know some people will get realy upset about that one, and some consider it heresy. but to be honest people protect the nature of God in many ways (with i cant see God being that way) but dont in other ways, the amount of times i hear this is a doctrine from satan not from God is high. especially the doctrine that says a christian can lose there salvation. Or if i was to ask does God allow christians to be oppressed by demons, most christians will say no God does not allow that one, demons do that one on there own accord. Then you say hang on a minute didnt you say demons obey God. there seems to be a stark contrast for many issues in our bible that leave you puzzled, Like this one you mentioned God created everything. but yet this suggests other wise.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

This is indicating darkness was already here above and theres indication in other places(like Jesus saying Satan was a murderer in the beginning) , but theres also a stark contrast to suggest other wise in other parts of the bible, (like i the lord created calamity, but then theres a stark contrast for that,,(like i the lord is not the author of confusion). Theres seems an argument a confliction for everything, but sadisticness is something christians would say is a doctrine from satan, but at the end of day who really wants knowledge of all good and evil ?,,, talking about darkness all the time unless you know how to over come fear and see the light really can start to mess with your head ater a while. perhaps the reason why we get oppressed by evil in the form of temptation or denomic attacks, demons do it to bring there fear or there talk into the world, through us they rule out of fear, and then its not so much we have come to know all knowledge of Good and evil of our own accord but something that is forced upon many. We see the preachers who become obsessed with the hell speach and preach it over and over again, witnessing someone that way inclined is like witnessing a devil. I guess the reason why so many churches just do prayers and read Good parts only from the bible.

Demons oppressing christians and making them worry and nervous is something most christians will become protective of and immeadiately support that person, but to a demon that is glorified temptatation, because he knows when the person become full of anxiety or nervouse there more likely to sin out of fear, The hihgest reason for sin i would say is proving they have to do sometheing that there not scared etc. (glorified temptation i call it, and the bible is riddled with acts of sin that in my oppinion has been commited out of Gloryfied temptation. Satan gloryfies temptation in the person he is tempting in many ways, like how beautiful it would be to experience drugs, or are you afraid to lose your life. do you call your self a man ? are you scared ? the pleasure of good feeling is your reward.

Or in other cases demons totaly gain controll of a persons mind. even children, they hate children, and can have a child so mentally ill by time theyve finished with them that the child takes there own life. because after a demon has got a child to mess up they then scare them with punishment, out of a fear a child kills them self or run away. children can so easily develop a trauma or panic (nervous disorder,

Demons dont really care about that and i have witnessed it.

As for predestination, its a topic thats good in some ways but horrible in other ways. it can sound quite cruel to some as well can be soul destroying and demoralising for a person.. personally and this is my belief that the horrible side of predestination comes and happens to a person who is demon possessed( and there are billions of people i fear are possesed). This is my belief that satan and his cronies have all knowledge of abilities and suernatural powers as written in the bible, and are able to set the course in a persons life they possess(but not on the authority of God). its not untill the a person hands his life over to Jesus that you come into a better pre destination. there is something to prdestination because ive had the dreams in my sleep that come real befor today.

You can't honestly debate anything I said when you begin by dishonestly attacking a statement from your imagination.
Maybe you should commit to introspection and ask yourself why you see God as an evil puppet master.
Because I never said that.

God is Sovereign over his creation.
If the fall wasn't predestined, the tree that would give Adam and Eve the same consciousness as God , if that knowledge was forbidden them, would not have been created by God.

Read the Old Testament.
I dare you.
We, as people, are already possessed by God consciousness.
Only everything we do that is labeled sin, is everything God did that we label divine righteous power, authority, and retribution.

Do you not know what it is that we ask for Salvation from? The human nature God predestined us to have because he did not forgive the first innocent mistake, due to their innocence, Adam and Eve made. When they listened to the serpent God let enter Eden.
How is Heaven paradise when God's angels sinned against him?

How was Eden paradise when our adversary, not God's, was allowed to enter Eden? And if it wasn't by God's planning, how did the serpent know of that singular forbidden tree so as to slither into it and lead Eve to eat of its God given fruit?

When we follow God's leading, we're following his plan.

There's another saying. "When God hates all the same people as you do, you've made God in your image and likeness."

I think the reason there are people who refuse to read the Bible critically rather than personally is for that very reason.
I've even met self identifying Christians who on one hand will say they pray for sinners, while on the other they are satisfied those they pray for are going to Hell. Because "they choose to" by their behaviors.

They so look forward to Heaven. Yet, that the kingdom of God is within, escapes their understanding.

just peeked into this thread...so much confusion and messed up doctrine

then again, the title alone......

pretty sure some folks have a version of the Bible that is by special order only

do you know who Lucifer was? (I'm not really asking cause I don't think it means a fig newton to you what anyone says)

God created Lucifer, who became the devil, when he decided he would take God's place

seems you just make it up as you go along and when you get caught in error, you say 'I meant to say.....fill in the blank'

like a tap that won't quit dripping

the bottom line is, the devil was once in heaven and knew God. you, maybe not so much

SophieT said:

do you know who Lucifer was? (I'm not really asking cause I don't think it means a fig newton to you what anyone says)

God created Lucifer, who became the devil, when he decided he would take God's place

seems you just make it up as you go along and when you get caught in error, you say 'I meant to say.....fill in the blank'

like a tap that won't quit dripping

the bottom line is, the devil was once in heaven and knew God. you, maybe not so much



@Pilgrimshope @JaumeJ @1ofthem @Absolutely @AandW @Mem @Dino246 @Magenta @Lucy-Pevensie @glen55 @Gideon300 @Runningman @Ahwatukee @tourist. @Blade @Rolly @Nehemiah6 @presidente @posthuman @Kidron @azsheepdog @DrGuyPhD @Icedaisey @GRACE_ambassador @CS1 @Ogom @Blik @Icedaisey

If we could Just all reframe from thinking of each as bad whilst we cover Satans heretic ideas that would be great thankyou.

I hope you dont mind but i would like the whole house to hear my reply to you and answer if they feal the need too.
The scripture says in Isaiah That Satan has a fantasy of being in heaven, (I will exalt my self higher than the heavens.) Now in the mind of dreamers fantasies become reality to them, all tho there not. Satan believing he is God is an utter delusion based on his own imagination. His imagination takes flight in many other scriptures where he clearly thinks he is God and is from heaven representing heaven. Sadly, many of his followers have thought this to, who have unknowingly followed him throughout the ages and been deceived. Just like you, sadly.



Now just a word of precaution here and a plea for Prudence and honor amongst an unfortunate den of thieves. Because that is what were in danger of becoming, if we could just reframe from insulting each other, and accusing each other of being a heretic, that would be great, make no mistake about it Satan is a heretic and were covering his heretic fantasies not ours.

I also ask that you dont close any more lids because God wants me to show you more sacred scripture.

I think when man first believed they can only know God from reading a book, man then became their own God.

Someone once asked, what is the purpose of man writing the Bible? While claiming its contents are divinely inspired?

My answer? Control. Through fear.

I know God exists. Faith is a hope it's true. But when you know, the Bible suddenly becomes just a book written by men who sought to control the world in the name of a power they invoked so as not to be questioned.

Notice something about the Bible? Never in its printing history has "God's Word" appeared on the cover.
Instead? Holy Book. Holy Bibles,Bible.

You know the old adage? "Let go and let God."

I've done that. It's an amazing lesson, teaching, if you can set aside the natural inclination to react to your life. Rather than think you can change it as it happens.

There's another saying. "When God hates all the same people as you do, you've made God in your image and likeness."

I think the reason there are people who refuse to read the Bible critically rather than personally is for that very reason.
I've even met self identifying Christians who on one hand will say they pray for sinners, while on the other they are satisfied those they pray for are going to Hell. Because "they choose to" by their behaviors.

They so look forward to Heaven. Yet, that the kingdom of God is within, escapes their understanding.

God finds a way. That I think is why in scripture God told us to test the spirits.
God is the source of all that exists. All, is of and from God.
I know God will lead us to find his truth. I think part of that what God has purposed in that regard is to lead us to test those spirits by realizing man's book is not inerrant.

Realizing that makes it easier to recognize God being perfect source of all that is, was, shall be, would never "talk like that". Because God is not the author of confusion.

I think when man first believed they can only know God from reading a book, man then became their own God.

Someone once asked, what is the purpose of man writing the Bible? While claiming its contents are divinely inspired?

My answer? Control. Through fear.

I know God exists. Faith is a hope it's true. But when you know, the Bible suddenly becomes just a book written by men who sought to control the world in the name of a power they invoked so as not to be questioned.

Notice something about the Bible? Never in its printing history has "God's Word" appeared on the cover.
Instead? Holy Book. Holy Bibles,Bible.

You know the old adage? "Let go and let God."

I've done that. It's an amazing lesson, teaching, if you can set aside the natural inclination to react to your life. Rather than think you can change it as it happens.

There's another saying. "When God hates all the same people as you do, you've made God in your image and likeness."

I think the reason there are people who refuse to read the Bible critically rather than personally is for that very reason.
I've even met self identifying Christians who on one hand will say they pray for sinners, while on the other they are satisfied those they pray for are going to Hell. Because "they choose to" by their behaviors.

They so look forward to Heaven. Yet, that the kingdom of God is within, escapes their understanding.

God finds a way. That I think is why in scripture God told us to test the spirits.
God is the source of all that exists. All, is of and from God.
I know God will lead us to find his truth. I think part of that what God has purposed in that regard is to lead us to test those spirits by realizing man's book is not inerrant.

Realizing that makes it easier to recognize God being perfect source of all that is, was, shall be, would never "talk like that". Because God is not the author of confusion.

You can't honestly debate anything I said when you begin by dishonestly attacking a statement from your imagination.
Maybe you should commit to introspection and ask yourself why you see God as an evil puppet master.
Because I never said that.

I'm responding to your post because aggressive people feigning righteousness have already lost any argument they propose. You're near that but not quite as young in thought or presentation.

Everything I observed is garnered from the scriptures.

You and the other one demonstrate what was observed in my post. You believe in the Bible but you can't accept what God tells you about himself.

Look it up. God tells you Satan has no power but what God allows.

God is Sovereign over his creation.
If the fall wasn't predestined, the tree that would give Adam and Eve the same consciousness as God , if that knowledge was forbidden them, would not have been created by God.

And don't forget. The Christian aspires to Christ consciousness. The mind of Christ.
Christ, Emmanuel, was God.

In the beginning.

Was the word. And the word was with God and the word was God.

Read the Old Testament.
I dare you.
We, as people, are already possessed by God consciousness.
Only everything we do that is labeled sin, is everything God did that we label divine righteous power, authority, and retribution.

Do you not know what it is that we ask for Salvation from? The human nature God predestined us to have because he did not forgive the first innocent mistake, due to their innocence, Adam and Eve made. When they listened to the serpent God let enter Eden.
How is Heaven paradise when God's angels sinned against him?

How was Eden paradise when our adversary, not God's, was allowed to enter Eden? And if it wasn't by God's planning, how did the serpent know of that singular forbidden tree so as to slither into it and lead Eve to eat of its God given fruit?

Salvation? Is asking to be saved from God. But, as he tells you, and it isn't Calvin's invention that he borrowed from someone else, it's God's own words. No one comes to Jesus (God), unless God calls them.

"Elect of God."


And those one's? Are the ones who have their name written in God's Lamb's Book of Life.
And that book? God tells you in his word. Was written before the foundation of the world. Before God created the world.

Before Eden. Before the tree of knowledge. Before the fall.

God wrote the names of those he'd call to salvation before the fall.

Deuteronomy 12:30-32
"For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;...


If Satan was cast down at that point, how would he know about the fruit of that tree?

Remember. God gave Satan his permission to destroy Job's life, including killing his family, so that Omniscient Sovereign God would win a wager with Satan.

Satan returned to Heaven after he was cast out.

Was Job the first victim of such a test? Or was Adam and Eve?

What would the Lambs Book of Life mean if not for the fall?

You believe in God. But you try to rework to your satisfaction what he tells you of himself.

Acts 4:27–28
for truly in this city there were gathered together against your uholy servant Jesus, vwhom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.


Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

The human proposes. God disposes.

We think we have free choices to do as we wish. But God tells us even that is our delusion. When we follow God's leading, we're following his plan.
What did God tell Jeremiah in chapter 29:11?

John 9:41 "Jesus said to them, 'If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.'"

Get it?

If we could Just all reframe from thinking of each as bad whilst we cover Satans heretic ideas that would be great thankyou.

I hope you dont mind but i would like the whole house to hear my reply to you and answer if they feal the need too.
The scripture says in Isaiah That Satan has a fantasy of being in heaven, (I will exalt my self higher than the heavens.) Now in the mind of dreamers fantasies become reality to them, all tho there not. Satan believing he is God is an utter delusion based on his own imagination. His imagination takes flight in many other scriptures where he clearly thinks he is God and is from heaven representing heaven. Sadly, many of his followers have thought this to, who have unknowingly followed him throughout the ages and been deceived. Just like you, sadly.