Saved by Water

No, water baptism is commanded. To saved people.

Let's consider the whole verse.

and this water (literal water, from v.20 and the flood, which DIDN'T save anyone, but rather drowned the entire population) symbolizes baptism (of the Holy Spirit) that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

So, the verse clearly says that literal water symbolizes the baptism (Holy Spirit) that now saves you.

iow, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what saves, not getting dunked in literal water.

Just ask the entire population of Noah's day how their full immersion in water worked out for them.

Or ask the entire Egyptian army how their full immersion in water worked out for them. Yet, Paul equates the israelites with being "baptized in Moses in the cloud and in the sea". 1 Cor 10:1,2

This proves that dry baptisms are real; iow the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It is the wet baptisms that are ritual; symbolic of an identification.

Actually, both wet and dry baptisms are symbolic of something. But dry baptisms, like 1 Cor 10:1,2 speak of, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, are real identifications, while wet baptisms use ritual to symbolize an identification.

So, water baptism is commanded for believers as an identification of being with Christ.

"born of water" refers to physical birth
"born of the Spirit" refers to spiritual birth, when the Holy Spirit indwells the believer. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves us.

Here is the preceding verse:

v.37 -
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The red words demonstrate that the crowd were convicted by what they heard, and realized that they HAD assisted in the crucifixion of Jesus. So they asked Peter what they should to. iow, how could they fix their mess.

So, by this time, they had already changed their minds (repented) about Jesus Christ and were saved. So Peter wasn't telling them how to be saved. He was telling them what they should NOW do.

It should be obvious that after seeing and hearing the Lord directly on the road, and being blind for 3 straight days, Saul had enough time to figure out exactly who Jesus really was. So this is like Acts 2:38. He had by now realized that Jesus WAS the Messiah. What follows naturally is water baptism as an identification with Christ.

This is the symbolism of water baptism.

Refers to either the real and dry baptism of the Holy Spirit or the ritual and wet baptism by immersion.

Study Bibles all indicate that v.9-20 don't appear in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts. This means these verses were added later on by scribes. They aren't inspired.

See above.

Here's one to consider:

1 Cor 1-
14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.
16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Quite a remarkable statement from arguably the most prolific evangelist ever. He distanced himself from water baptism.

If Paul thought that water baptism was required for salvation, we would be reading that in every one of his epistles, but we don't.

Instead, Paul was glad that he didn't baptize very many.

As for your "many more" comment, here are the verses that mention people geting saved, coming to faith and there is NO mention of water baptism:

Acts 2:47, 3:16, 19, 4:4, 12, 5:42, 6:7, 8:36, 9:17, 18, 31, 35, 42, 10:44, 47, 11:16, 21, 24, 13:12, 38,39,48, 17:34, 18:8, 19:18, 20:21, 24, Rom 1:16.

WOW..you are off base...no one is saved until God says we are saved upon His judgement. Remember It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement.
When we repent, are baptized and are living a righteous life we are....born again.

I would never try to replace God's judgement by saying I am saved...while on this earth. Only He has that authority which He applies after our physical death.

No one said anything about works. Why do you?

the fact is that the Bible talks about our salvation in each tense:

• we have been saved
  • ex. 2 Timothy 1:9
• we are being saved
  • ex. 1 Corinthians 1:18
• we will be saved
  • ex. Romans 5:9

we can't just pick one and pretend the others aren't true.
we ought to expect this kind of variation in language, actually, since God is outside of time, and our salvation is hiding us in Him -- therefore it is also eternal, and separate from time.


but as to your particular comment -- that no one is saved until after His judgement?
do you have reason to doubt His promises, that He gives eternal life to all who believe in Him, and He loses none of us?
if He is faithful ((& He is)) i don't see what cause anyone has to speak of it as though it is in any way unsure.

should i doubt Him?

if i believe Him, friend, i am not doubting Him.
i am saved and there is no doubt of it; it is a firm & secure hope, an anchor for the soul.
i don't have to wait until He appears to have the question settled: His word is Truth

Lol. whatever. A lot of pride their my friend. Of course I come to expect that from workers for

Your wrong in the process and f receiving the gift of salvation your trying to earn it. You will fail.

How about in scripture?
I was baptized my friend. And everyone I know was baptized. So take your judgement someplace else. Your nit as smart as you think you are

Well you changed the intent of acts 28. So judge yourself as guilty
works is the plan of earning ir
Maintaining salvation by your works.
Being sanctified by God and living like Christ as a result of salvation is not works

I pray you learn the difference

You need to reread your posts. It’s all you talk about

will this do?

Salvation is assured the moment one believes in Christ for it. I'm not off base at all.

This is true. For both believer and unbeliever. Do you what each group will be judged on? Their works. Do you know the purpose that each group is being judged on their works?

When we repent, are baptized and are living a righteous life we are....born again.[/QUOTE]
Regeneration occurs at the same moment as faith in Christ.

Then you don't believe all the promises of eternal life in the Bible, huh.

Jesus said those who believe HAVE (possess) eternal life in John 5:24.
Then in John 10:28 He said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

So, from what you've just said, you don't believe what Jesus said.

Salvation isn't applied after our physical death. It is applied WHEN we believe in Christ for salvation.

You have it backwards.

Because all of these things you listed are part of salvation. Taking the Lord's supper equals faith.
Faith = believing = doing.

You cant say I believe Jesus but then dont do any of the things He said to do. Obviously. We know this on a secular level, but when it comes to the Bible we are lost in theology-land.

Wrong

I can take the lords supper and Not have faith.

Faith is in christ to save us from our sins. That is what saves us Not baptism, or communion or going to church. Those are results of faith, but many people do all those things and have no faith. Your in effect telling them because they do those things they are saved. Theor faith is in those works. Not in christ.

The jews did many works. But their faith was in works. Not in what God said. So when christ came they crucified him. They had many works. And claimed to have faith in God. But their faith was in self.

Thats what you are promoting my friend.

Only trying to get you to respect the Bible and not try to change it.

Regeneration occurs at the same moment as faith in Christ.


Then you don't believe all the promises of eternal life in the Bible, huh.

Jesus said those who believe HAVE (possess) eternal life in John 5:24.
Then in John 10:28 He said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

So, from what you've just said, you don't believe what Jesus said.


Salvation isn't applied after our physical death. It is applied WHEN we believe in Christ for salvation.

You have it backwards.[/QUOTE]

Yes...upon His award of eternal life after judgement.

You can't have it both ways....you say you are saved ..........God will judge you and decide if you are saved....which is it?

Apply common sense. The Bible suggest we apply common sense no less than 14 times.

You are being deceived thru new age religion teachings....wake up.

Wrong.

Scripture....Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us.....

Cleansed by water...not saved.....that's God's determination after death and by His judgement.

Baptism was a basic part of becoming a disciple, both under John the baptist AND under Jesus.

This is manifest not only at the beginning of Jesus' earthly ministry...:
John 4:1-2 KJV
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, [2] (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

But also at the end of his earthly ministry...:
Mark 16:16-17 KJV
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

And continued to be the case after his ascension as manifested by both Peter and Paul...:
Acts 2:38-39 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 19:4-6 KJV
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. [5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [6] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

In addition to supporting the idea that baptism is an integral part of discipleship throughout Jesus' and his apostles' ministries, these last three also contain (or make direct reference) to the other aspect of basic salvation... the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which comes with speaking in tongues. to tie it to the first reference about John, a person can look at ANY of the 4 gospel accounts to see john specifically state that he indeed baptizes with water but he that comes after him (Jesus) baptizes with the Holy Ghost. That's why Jesus never baptized anyone with water, lest someone get confused. But that can be more thoroughly discussed in another thread to avoid cluttering this one

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I really like this your post, probably because it's such a short and direct statement. But I somewhat disagree with the conclusion. This explanation will be heavy so please bear with me...

The ark was irrelevant without the water.

The water was the cleansing element to remove corruption from the earth. Without the flood, Noah would have gotten into the ark in a corrupt world and would have gotten out of the ark in a corrupt world. The water was necessary as a cleansing element. IMO the ark represents God's power to keep a person through the cleansing/judgement (if the persons submit to the prescribed solution) even if the cleansing element seems inescapable and world-destroying.

I think Jesus' complete trust & obedience to the Father (his complete submission to the prescribed solution) was his "ark" that kept him through the real element that captures, removes and destroys sin. That real element is death and the subsequent burning that captures and destroys all sin and those who are attached to those sins.

Jesus went down into death with the sins of the world (satisfying death's purpose to remove & destroy sins). But Jesus was brought up again by the power of God because he was NOT attached to those sins. He left the sins behind and rose to go on to a life forever free from sin.

Jesus was required to do the real... and we are required to do the likeness that symbolizes that real thing he did. This is detailed in
Romans 6:3-5 KJV:


I highlighted the "IF" because only IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death shall we be in the likeness of his resurrection. Otherwise we have no right to it and would be cast out of the marriage feast like the man in Matthew 22:11-14 KJV


Jesus (at his own baptism) clarified that baptism is not a work, but a righteousness that we are to fulfil. It's a putting off of any righteousness WE may have claimed (filthy rags), and instead submitting to the righteousness that is prescribed, provided and required by God...IF we want to pass through death unscathed and uncaptured.

Matthew 3:14-17 KJV

And just as the ark may have seemed foolish and unnecessary to some in Noah's day, so does baptism seem unnecessary to some in this day.

That was a lot. I pray all are open to receive. @Wansvic

Love in Jesus,
Kelby