Saved by Water

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Only trying to get you to respect the Bible and not try to change it.
I do respect the Bible. Thats why I not only received Christ, I also did what he asked.

And I am trying to get you to see the fallacy in your argument and where your faith is misplaced
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Luke 7:28-30
For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
Wow. I didn't realize that those last two verses were also closely connected to vs 28, physically.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Wrong.

Scripture....Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us.....
So why bother preaching?
Why not just turn on a garden hose and spray all the unbelievers?
Voila, saved by water?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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I really like this your post, probably because it's such a short and direct statement. But I somewhat disagree with the conclusion. This explanation will be heavy so please bear with me...

The ark was irrelevant without the water.

The water was the cleansing element to remove corruption from the earth. Without the flood, Noah would have gotten into the ark in a corrupt world and would have gotten out of the ark in a corrupt world. The water was necessary as a cleansing element. IMO the ark represents God's power to keep a person through the cleansing/judgement (if the persons submit to the prescribed solution) even if the cleansing element seems inescapable and world-destroying.

I think Jesus' complete trust & obedience to the Father (his complete submission to the prescribed solution) was his "ark" that kept him through the real element that captures, removes and destroys sin. That real element is death and the subsequent burning that captures and destroys all sin and those who are attached to those sins.

Jesus went down into death with the sins of the world (satisfying death's purpose to remove & destroy sins). But Jesus was brought up again by the power of God because he was NOT attached to those sins. He left the sins behind and rose to go on to a life forever free from sin.

Jesus was required to do the real... and we are required to do the likeness that symbolizes that real thing he did. This is detailed in
Romans 6:3-5 KJV:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [5] For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"​

I highlighted the "IF" because only IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death shall we be in the likeness of his resurrection. Otherwise we have no right to it and would be cast out of the marriage feast like the man in Matthew 22:11-14 KJV

"And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: [12] And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. [13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [14] For many are called, but few are chosen."​

Jesus (at his own baptism) clarified that baptism is not a work, but a righteousness that we are to fulfil. It's a putting off of any righteousness WE may have claimed (filthy rags), and instead submitting to the righteousness that is prescribed, provided and required by God...IF we want to pass through death unscathed and uncaptured.

Matthew 3:14-17 KJV
"But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? [15] And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. [16] And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."​

And just as the ark may have seemed foolish and unnecessary to some in Noah's day, so does baptism seem unnecessary to some in this day.

That was a lot. I pray all are open to receive. @Wansvic

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
You express the truth with such clarity! Thank you for sharing.
 
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Regeneration occurs at the same moment as faith in Christ.

Then you don't believe all the promises of eternal life in the Bible, huh.

Jesus said those who believe HAVE (possess) eternal life in John 5:24.
Then in John 10:28 He said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

So, from what you've just said, you don't believe what Jesus said.

Salvation isn't applied after our physical death. It is applied WHEN we believe in Christ for salvation.

You have it backwards.
Yes...upon His award of eternal life after judgement.
OK, so you agre that you have it backwards. Good.

You can't have it both ways....you say you are saved ..........God will judge you and decide if you are saved....which is it?
By the time saved people come before the Bema (Judgment Seat of Christ) and unsaved people come before the Great White Throne judgment, NO ONE will be judged on whether they are saved. So your comment is unbiblical.

Both the Bema and GWT judgments are about WORKS. But not for salvation.

Matt 10:15 - Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Matt 11:22 - But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.
Matt 11:24 - But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”

The issue of salvation is determined the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation. John 5:24, one of the verse that you seem not to believe.

Apply common sense. The Bible suggest we apply common sense no less than 14 times.
There is no common sense when a person doesn't believe what the Bible very plainly states. As you have done.

You are being deceived thru new age religion teachings....wake up.
I'm not the sleepy one here. I've shown verses that refute your idea that salvation is determined at "the judgment".

Are you even aware that there are 2 separate judgments?
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
Water saves no one.

r the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Please ask the Egyptian army how their water baptism worked out for them. Oh, and the Israelites went through the Red Sea on DRY ground. They were baptized all right. The word means an "identification". The Israelites were certainly identified with Moses, as their leader, the cloud, as their spiritual leader, and identified with God's provision of deliverance FROM the literal waters of the Red Sea.

Do you understand the difference between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism? Mark 1:8 shows the difference.

Oh, and please ask the entire human race in Noah's day about water baptism and how that worked out for them. Noah and his family were saved FROM THE LITERAL WATER of the flood.
Wrong.
Scripture....Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us.....
OK, so you also don't believe 1 Cor 10:1-5 either. Wow.

The quote you made from 1 Pet 3:21 refers to Holy Spirit baptism, not water baptism. Literal water is a ritual, as a symbol for the believer's identification with Christ.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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You express the truth with such clarity! Thank you for sharing.
FYI, there was a lot of prayer behind that posting. I took a trip yesterday and had little to do but pray in the spirit. That always pays off. Glory to God.

Jude 1:20 KJV​
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, ...​

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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SophieT

Guest
And just as the ark may have seemed foolish and unnecessary to some in Noah's day, so does baptism seem unnecessary to some in this day.
I did read all of your post and do think the metaphor with the water and the ark makes sense

however, are you of the same mind as Blik and convinced that if you are not water baptized, you are actually not even saved?

the intent of the threads by Blik are not to convince people that water baptism is something a Christian should attain to, but rather an attempt to convince everyone that if you are not water baptized, then you are NOT saved

is that also your belief? or do you believe, as most, that you are saved even if you are not water baptized, but you should be water baptized as it symbolized death and resurrection with Christ

which of the two is your belief

thanks

one other thing though.....water did not save Noah and his family....the ark saved them in the water...Christ is the ark (metaphor)...the water would surely have seen them all drowned without the ark., there is a difference there. water may have temporairly washed the earth clean, but it also KILLED all on the earth
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
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Midwest
the first reference about John, a person can look at ANY of the 4 gospel accounts to see john specifically state that he indeed baptizes with water but he that comes after him (Jesus) baptizes with the Holy Ghost. That's why Jesus never baptized anyone with water, lest someone get confused. But that can be more thoroughly discussed in another thread to avoid cluttering this one
Yes indeed = discussions here: The Previous 12 baptisms & Today's ONE Baptism
 
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one other thing though.....water did not save Noah and his family....the ark saved them in the water..
Specifically, the ark saved Noah and family FROM the water. The water of the flood killed the rest of the population of the earth. The ark saved 8 of the population.

Christ is the ark (metaphor)...the water would surely have seen them all drowned without the ark., there is a difference there. water may have temporairly washed the earth clean, but it also KILLED all on the earth
(y)
 
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SophieT

Guest
Specifically, the ark saved Noah and family FROM the water. The water of the flood killed the rest of the population of the earth. The ark saved 8 of the population.


(y)
what I said below:

one other thing though.....water did not save Noah and his family....the ark saved them in the water...Christ is the ark (metaphor)...the water would surely have seen them all drowned without the ark., there is a difference there. water may have temporarily washed the earth clean, but it also KILLED all on the earth

you must be having a slow day if want to quibble over the words from and in. :rolleyes:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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So why bother preaching?
Why not just turn on a garden hose and spray all the unbelievers?
Voila, saved by water?
@Wansvic & @peldom10 & @KelbyofGod & @whoeverelse

of course this notion is absurd -- and that's exactly why i said it.
because it is edifying for us to confess why it is absurd:


because it takes something other than a person's body getting wet to wash sins away.

now you guys tell me about infant baptism, OK?
is it any different than just spraying down the wicked with a hose & expecting salvation results?
 
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SophieT

Guest
the error that water washes away sin, is actually very serious. it adds a work people must do in order to make up for something that apparently Jesus did not do. those who insist water washes away sin, and seem to go to great lengths in scripture manipulation to do so, are presenting a FALSE gospel. it is not the gospel presented in scripture and simply erroneous

sadly, those who practice this error, indicate they do not believe that Jesus did enough. the actual gospel as found in scripture, tells us that ONLY the blood of Christ saves a person from sin. baptism symbolizes our new life in Christ...it does not take any sin away and does not save us. we should be baptized as indicated in scripture, but you are not 'unsaved' if you have trusted in Christ if for some reason you are not water baptized.

John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

John 3:15
so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Luke 7:50
And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

and many many more verses, chapters and entire books devoted to this fact that only Christ saves and nothing we can do adds to our salvation. salvation is by faith in Christ and in HIS work for us, which is a completed work and needs nothing added to it
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Specifically, the ark saved Noah and family FROM the water. The water of the flood killed the rest of the population of the earth. The ark saved 8 of the population.


(y)
there, the water was judgement
Christ says the one believing in Him has passed from judgement into life


Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
(John 5:24)
there is no mention of H2O in this verse -- mind you, i am not arguing against baptism at all.
but we need to understand that it is belief in Him that saves us from judgement, not water. we are washed by His word ((Ephesians 5:26, John 15:3))
rituals are shadows: the water in baptism is representative of His word, which judges the lost and washes the saved.


our faith is in a Person, not a sacrament.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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there, the water was judgement
Christ says the one believing in Him has passed from judgement into life


Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
(John 5:24)
there is no mention of H2O in this verse -- mind you, i am not arguing against baptism at all.
but we need to understand that it is belief in Him that saves us from judgement, not water. we are washed by His word ((Ephesians 5:26, John 15:3))
rituals are shadows: the water in baptism is representative of His word, which judges the lost and washes the saved.


our faith is in a Person, not a sacrament.
John 5:24 mentions His word and belief and God here declares that those things together produce eternal life & salvation from judgement.
not H2O, but Christ.

if the Bible taught H2O baptism saved we should evangelize not with the gospel and the scripture but by walking around with squirt guns & buckets.
that is not the case.

Christ baptized no one with H2O. He did that on purpose; He is omniscient God. He baptizes with fire and with spirit.
 
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what I said below:

one other thing though.....water did not save Noah and his family....the ark saved them in the water...Christ is the ark (metaphor)...the water would surely have seen them all drowned without the ark., there is a difference there. water may have temporarily washed the earth clean, but it also KILLED all on the earth

you must be having a slow day if want to quibble over the words from and in. :rolleyes:
My point is that the ark saved Noah and family FROM the water. iow, they didn't even get wet. Just as the Israelites who walked on dry ground in the midst of the Red Sea and didn't get wet either, yet Paul described them as having been baptized "in the sea" in 1 Cor 10:1-5. It was the entire Egyptian army that were immersed IN the water and were killed by the water.

Water is dangerous. It kills people and animals. Why some believers get the notion that water baptism saves is sad.

It is the baptism with the Holy Spirit that saves us. That baptism occurs the moment one believes in the Lord Jesus for salvation.

And 1 Pet 3:21 makes that point.
 
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SophieT

Guest
My point is that the ark saved Noah and family FROM the water. iow, they didn't even get wet. Just as the Israelites who walked on dry ground in the midst of the Red Sea and didn't get wet either, yet Paul described them as having been baptized "in the sea" in 1 Cor 10:1-5. It was the entire Egyptian army that were immersed IN the water and were killed by the water.

Water is dangerous. It kills people and animals. Why some believers get the notion that water baptism saves is sad.

It is the baptism with the Holy Spirit that saves us. That baptism occurs the moment one believes in the Lord Jesus for salvation.

And 1 Pet 3:21 makes that point.
got it out of your system now? hope so

you actually repeated what I had already said

so whatever
 
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SophieT

Guest
well thanks for the hearts kelby, but no answer

maybe that is actually an answer
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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John 5:24 mentions His word and belief and God here declares that those things together produce eternal life & salvation from judgement.
not H2O, but Christ.

if the Bible taught H2O baptism saved we should evangelize not with the gospel and the scripture but by walking around with squirt guns & buckets.
that is not the case.

Christ baptized no one with H2O. He did that on purpose; He is omniscient God. He baptizes with fire and with spirit.
You supply John 5:24 as evidence that water baptism is not required. When in fact it speaks to the very truth that it is.

Believing in Jesus is not just recognizing who he is. Belief requires accepting everything that he said while here on earth, as well as the commandments he gave to his apostles through the Holy Ghost.

Acts 1:1-2
The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:


Notice what the apostles taught after receiving the Holy Ghost, and remember as the scripture above shows the commandment came directly from Jesus through the Holy Ghost. All who believed were commanded to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

What you seem to fail to realize is that to reject what God's word states is to in fact reject Jesus who is the word manifested in the flesh.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48