Are we saved by faith alone or is works necessary?

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laymen

laymen

Senior Member
#21
Apr 6, 2014
680
102
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faithlife.com
#21
Blik said:
Titus 3:4-8 “But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

Does this mean that the faith they speak of is of the mind only, or does our faith have to include acting out our faith?

Scripture does not answer this question directly, but James tells us faith without works is dead and Christ tells us that being a Christian is not a matter of only how we think but includes what we do.

"Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven."(NASB) Matt. 7:21
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I think when we fully understand Freedom then we are able to understand what it means to "work" for the Lord.


As we all know Salvation does not come from the law but from Jesus, so in that respect when we follow the law it brings true freedom. Some might think being able to do as one wishes is freedom, many fall in to this trap when growing up and try drugs then get hooked on them. They think they are getting free from the world and its issues but only to find them self in bondage to addiction. When we do not love our neighbor it puts us in bondages to sin with hate in much the same as addiction runs a persons life so can hate run your life and drain all your energy. When we Love Jesus we will want to follow in his foot steps to the degree of our faith allows.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#22
Sep 2, 2020
13,878
5,622
113
#22
Justified said:
See post # 17 for a clear teaching from a Greek Scholar who happens to be a Calvinist.
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“from a Greek Scholar who happens to be a Calvinist.”


see Matthew chapter 1 - John chapter 20 for a teaching by God our creator and savior

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45
 
R

rayzor

Banned
#23
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#23
It is written their is only 1 teacher therefor if any one learns anything it can only be buy god.
 
T

Trogicj

New member
#24
Aug 7, 2021
19
10
3
#24
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#25
May 23, 2012
12,997
4,309
113
#25
THE WORK IN lOVE.

Jesus said John 14:15 "15“If you love Me, keep My commandments. the work of salvation is and was done by Jesus, yet you have been set free to obey HIM or take the freedom and live your own life now. But God is not Mocked If you say you love HIm and do not obey HIm you do not love HIm or know Him. You think you have fire insurance. God is not mocked.
 
R

rayzor

Banned
#26
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#26
& faith without works id dead.
 
T

Trogicj

New member
#27
Aug 7, 2021
19
10
3
#27
Nehemiah6 said:
Faith does require action, but it is SIMPLE FAITH that justifies the sinner and the ungodly. The best example is the criminal on the cross beside Christ. He was about to die when he put his faith and trust in Christ. And that was sufficient to justify this criminal, and guarantee him a place in Paradise (Heaven, since Paradise is in the New Jerusalem in Heaven). We do not need to complicate things. Genuine saving faith does result in action. But that follows salvation by grace through faith.
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Actually there is no such thing as saving faith mentioned in the Scriptures. Faith is faith. It is the object of our faith that matters. Christ is the Saving One. Not our faith. There is no specific special type of faith that saves, but simply a specific SAVIOR.
Faith does not always result in actions/works.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#28
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
13,713
113
#28
Blik said:
Do you interpret scripture as telling us we need to confirm our faith with works, or does the Lord say that faith needs only be mental faith?
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The former is the correct answer, though I would not choose those words to explain it.

James tells us that faith without works is dead. Paul tells us that we are saved by faith, not by works. Both passages are Scripture, so it is extremely unlikely that they are contradicting one another.

Paul is talking about trying to "be" or "do" good enough that we become acceptable to God. Those who think they must follow the old covenant law to please God are making this error.

James is talking about claiming faith while having a lifestyle that is inconsistent with that claim, where there is no fruit and no concern about producing fruit.
 
T

Trogicj

New member
#29
Aug 7, 2021
19
10
3
#29
rayzor said:
& faith without works id dead.
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Dead. Not non-existent. That passage in James is about believers' faith in their Christian life, not their initial faith for salvation. If in their Christian life they say they have faith but they don't have works, then their faith is dead/useless/unprofitable. Certainly no one else will profit from it. This does not mean they never believed on Christ. It's an entirely different subject.
 
R

rayzor

Banned
#30
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#30
Trogicj said:
Dead. Not non-existent. That passage in James is about believers' faith in their Christian life, not their initial faith for salvation. If in their Christian life they say they have faith but they don't have works, then their faith is dead/useless/unprofitable. Certainly no one else will profit from it. This does not mean they never believed on Christ. It's an entirely different subject.
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no kidding who disagrees with that?nobody!......:rolleyes:
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#32
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#32
Justified said:
Salvation is by grace.

Salvation is through faith.

Salvation is not of yourselves.

Salvation is the GIFT OF GOD.

Salvation is not of works.
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I like this explanation of salvation, it is so true.

I have studying the church as the apostles created it, before it was so changed in 313, so it is influencing my thinking. Befpre. I always accepted that following Christ was a matter of understanding theology, but the first church didn't think like that. It was a church that lived in the life of its members, Their faith was in accepting all Christ told them to do without question.

With this in mind, and the bible verses I have posted about it, the wonderful truths you have brought up does not really answer the question of what God considers faith. If we accept Christ in our life, does that change our actions or is faith simply a matter of theology and if we don't follow the Lord it is not our fault but the Lord's fault?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#33
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#33
Blik said:
Titus 3:4-8 “But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

Does this mean that the faith they speak of is of the mind only, or does our faith have to include acting out our faith?

Scripture does not answer this question directly, but James tells us faith without works is dead and Christ tells us that being a Christian is not a matter of only how we think but includes what we do.

"Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven."(NASB) Matt. 7:21
Click to expand...
When it comes to being saved what are we to contribute to the work of Jesus Christ which was finished some 2000 years ago?
 
R

rayzor

Banned
#34
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#34
i find those r the one that can't think or can't yet ,,,or the kind that just like 2 disagree.Nobody iv talk 2 thinks 1 has 2 work for salvation only that 1 will if their around long enough.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#35
Sep 2, 2020
13,878
5,622
113
#35
rayzor said:
i find those r the one that can't think or can't yet ,,,or the kind that just like 2 disagree.Nobody iv talk 2 thinks 1 has 2 work for salvation only that 1 will if their around long enough.
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“ faith against works” erases the purpose of it all when we believe this becomes part of the faithful doctrine

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we first believe we should be willing to hear the rest of the message
 
AnnG

AnnG

Member
#36
Aug 22, 2021
88
97
18
#36
Jesus did all the "work" on the cross. We live through His work by believing and knowing Jesus Christ is our Salvation. Jesus said "It is Finished"

His commandment is to love one another. If we believe we have to work for our Salvation, then Jesus died in vain.

I knew of one Christian that told me they heard of someone who was in need of food for their family, so she went out and brought them food. She stated that she kept her name ANONYMOUS. Well unfortunately she is no longer anonymous because she told me. 😒

What a waste of a good deed. So do you think God was really impressed by her Christian work?
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#37
Sep 2, 2020
13,878
5,622
113
#37
AnnG said:
Jesus did all the "work" on the cross. We live through His work by believing and knowing Jesus Christ is our Salvation. Jesus said "It is Finished"

His commandment is to love one another. If we believe we have to work for our Salvation, then Jesus died in vain.

I knew of one Christian that told me they heard of someone who was in need of food for their family, so she went out and brought them food. She stated that she kept her name ANONYMOUS. Well unfortunately she is no longer anonymous because she told me. 😒

What a waste of a good deed. So do you think God was really impressed by her Christian work?
Click to expand...
when you love someone is there no good works involved or do your actions tell the story of your love for them ?

“His commandment is to love one another. “

“But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:17-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

deeds are a part of loving one another
 
AnnG

AnnG

Member
#38
Aug 22, 2021
88
97
18
#38
Pilgrimshope said:
when you love someone is there no good works involved or do your actions tell the story of your love for them ?

“His commandment is to love one another. “

“But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:17-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

deeds are a part of loving one another
Click to expand...

I also mention To Love one Another in my post... but ... many Christians take works over the top. Did you read my example? and answer my question?
 
J

Justified

Active member
#39
Jul 13, 2021
194
74
28
#39
Pilgrimshope said:
“from a Greek Scholar who happens to be a Calvinist.”


see Matthew chapter 1 - John chapter 20 for a teaching by God our creator and savior

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45
Click to expand...
So you agree with what I posted in post #17
 
J

Justified

Active member
#40
Jul 13, 2021
194
74
28
#40
Blik said:
I like this explanation of salvation, it is so true.

I have studying the church as the apostles created it, before it was so changed in 313, so it is influencing my thinking. Befpre. I always accepted that following Christ was a matter of understanding theology, but the first church didn't think like that. It was a church that lived in the life of its members, Their faith was in accepting all Christ told them to do without question.

With this in mind, and the bible verses I have posted about it, the wonderful truths you have brought up does not really answer the question of what God considers faith. If we accept Christ in our life, does that change our actions or is faith simply a matter of theology and if we don't follow the Lord it is not our fault but the Lord's fault?
Click to expand...
If you believe and trust in Christ Jesus as your Lord and savior then you will follow Him and try to be like Him thus that will translate into good works. Do those works save you NO but as James said faith without works is dead.
 
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