Eternal Security: What do you do with James 2?
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Some people feel violated, when their faith is threatened, what they forget at this moment is violation is also a type of defiling, the enemy can make a person feel defiled (violated over and over again just by standing next to a person, (the enemy loves to defile in many ways).. the enemy loves it and will hang around all day until he gets someone to help with his next violation(which includes wispering in your ear faith without works is dead). But then to be blunt all tho that person may have good faith, the works they produce at this moment when they feel violated may well faulter, as what may come from their lips may be exactly what the enemy wants, and they would not recognize their thoughts have been taking captive, when the enemy has made them feel violated beforehand, like make you feel fear first then take your thoughts captive. Or make you feel violated, then take your thoughts captive, The works of the devil shine through everywhere because there is faith plus works from the devil that are , which are to send works and faith back to front from God. Whereby many people more or less end up accusing each other of having the wrong type of faith, and all along the devil caused that argument, oh and has got billions of people sowed up in a wrong faith somewhere right. Has to be right if there are 4 different religions
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Well if you are hearears of the word only and not doers of the word. If you show partiality To people. If you show no changed life. Do you think you have true saving faith? Did He not say he proved his faith by his works? Did He not use Abraham as an example Showing how abraham did not just have a claimed faith in God. But he justified his faith by his works?
James appears to contradict paul because they have two different audiences.
Paul, Speaking to legalistic jews who continued to think we had to maintain or earn salvation by works. Spoke against works in that context. James, Much like Jude. Spoke to people who thought that because they claimed to have faith they were saved and could live however they want, With no change of heart. So he spoke of works.
I can’t look at you or anyone else and say, Yep your saved, Nope your not saved. Because many people do works. And many people look like couch potatoes who don‘t seem to do anything. God did not tell me to be a fruit inspector. And judge. There will be many “workers” who will never see God. And I believe there will be many we think have never met God who wil spend eternity with us, although their rewards were burnt as wood hay and straw.
If we go around and tell people they MUST WORK, because James tells them if they do not they will lose salvation. Then we are doing the very thing Paul spoke against in Galations 3. We are making them fools.
James appears to contradict paul because they have two different audiences.
Paul, Speaking to legalistic jews who continued to think we had to maintain or earn salvation by works. Spoke against works in that context. James, Much like Jude. Spoke to people who thought that because they claimed to have faith they were saved and could live however they want, With no change of heart. So he spoke of works.
I can’t look at you or anyone else and say, Yep your saved, Nope your not saved. Because many people do works. And many people look like couch potatoes who don‘t seem to do anything. God did not tell me to be a fruit inspector. And judge. There will be many “workers” who will never see God. And I believe there will be many we think have never met God who wil spend eternity with us, although their rewards were burnt as wood hay and straw.
If we go around and tell people they MUST WORK, because James tells them if they do not they will lose salvation. Then we are doing the very thing Paul spoke against in Galations 3. We are making them fools.
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I think that is the point, I Have no power
Thats why I stand firm in my faith IN CHRIST to do the work in me. Not in my ability to do anything.
As hebrews says, By one offering he has perfected forever those being sanctified. My sanctification is a work of God also
Also. We can be convinced of this very thing, that he who BEGAN a good work in us, WILL COMPLETE it.
Thats why I stand firm in my faith IN CHRIST to do the work in me. Not in my ability to do anything.
As hebrews says, By one offering he has perfected forever those being sanctified. My sanctification is a work of God also
Also. We can be convinced of this very thing, that he who BEGAN a good work in us, WILL COMPLETE it.
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Don't confuse what James means by "faith only" -- empty profession of faith/dead faith that "remains alone" -- barren of works (James 2:14-18) with what Paul means by "salvation through faith in Christ alone" and not by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Salvation by works and eternal IN-security go hand-in-hand.
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In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
Remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
Remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
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Consider this from Romans 4:
“What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.””
Romans 4:1-8 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.4.1-8.ESV
Notice that it says that Abraham couldn’t boast about his works before God. That makes me think of this passage regarding Cornelius.
“And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,”
Acts 15:8 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/act.15.8.ESV
God knows our hearts with or without works. Justified means “shown to be righteous”. God doesn’t need to see our works to know we have faith.
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What this thread has shown me is that the doctrine of faith alone has brainwashed a great many people. When verses like those in James 2 appear they don't know what to do with them so they just revert to the standard faith only doctrine: "Well, I just know we're saved by faith alone, end of story." Or they redirect to something written by someone else because they have no ideas of their own on James 2.
Some have used mental gymnastics, and some have resorted to the ridiculous, like: "God doesn't decide who is of genuine faith and who is isn't."
Some have stated works are evidence of faith but they play no role in our salvation. I agree, works are evidence of our faith, but they play a very important role in our salvation.
Unfortunately, many have accepted the false doctrine that you believe, say the sinner's prayer and you're in the club. . .forever. But this simply isn't true.
I've been accused of not considering all of scripture, so let's look at some other scripture:
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."—1 Corinthians 1:18
We're saved—we're being saved—and we will be saved. Salvation's an ongoing process and works—or actions—for those afraid of the word works are just as necessary as faith.
Some have used mental gymnastics, and some have resorted to the ridiculous, like: "God doesn't decide who is of genuine faith and who is isn't."
Some have stated works are evidence of faith but they play no role in our salvation. I agree, works are evidence of our faith, but they play a very important role in our salvation.
Unfortunately, many have accepted the false doctrine that you believe, say the sinner's prayer and you're in the club. . .forever. But this simply isn't true.
I've been accused of not considering all of scripture, so let's look at some other scripture:
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."—1 Corinthians 1:18
We're saved—we're being saved—and we will be saved. Salvation's an ongoing process and works—or actions—for those afraid of the word works are just as necessary as faith.
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