What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

OK, no problem. Let's go with that then.

That still addresses those three only. No one else is ever said to be tormented forever, right? You only assume, with no scriptural backing, that God would treat anyone else as severely despite tons of scriptures stating the opposite.

Then we have to deal with the possibility that "for ever" there isn't literal because God has used similar language for non-literal "for evers"

Plus, scripture promises the devil will be destroyed and not exist anymore so that supports Annihilation even for the Devil and if the Devil will be destroyed, then certainly the beast and FP would also be destroyed since they cannot exceed the wickedness of satan himself.

Lastly, in the eternity pain no longer exists which further rules out any possibility of people being in pain forever.

At best eternal torture has support for only the beast, FP and Devil to be tortured forever but even that ignores other scriptures mentioned already.

The case for Annihilation is immensely stronger and better supported.

I think I already covered Hebrews 2:14 in the following posts (and in more, even before these):

-- Post #1213 (page 61) - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-are-you-thoughts-on-annihilation.201874/post-4688729

-- Post #1326 (page 67) - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-are-you-thoughts-on-annihilation.201874/post-4689914




Did you happen to read them??






Oh boy...

Your posts are generally unreadable so no. Plus you wrote to another person. Why not address the content of my post which clearly dismantles most if not all of eternal torture doctrine?

Start with the fact that pain will not exist in eternity. Your doctrine disagrees with scripture on that, while mine is in harmony.


Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The question I was posing, though, recall, was: if the purpose [and function] of "the lake of fire" was to "incinerate" ppl into nothingness... then why are these two ppl who've been there for 1000 years already (not to mention, will be tormented day and night unto the ages of the ages, there, from the GWTj and onward according to the text)... why are these two people not "incinerated" already?

It's because "the lake of fire" is not "death" (which will itself be "rendered inoperative" at this GWTj point, after it and hell/hades DELIVERED UP the DEAD)... nor "annihilation"... or any such thing. That's obviously not the function / purpose of "the lake of fire".


I disagree that "tons of scriptures state the opposite"... and I've been plodding through this thread endeavoring to point out how the verses you and others use to "say" it says so, don't actually say that.

What "level" is that?

They are. We already covered that plus you have sidestepped the fact that there is no pain in eternity. Are you just going to ignore that?

They aren't, and that was covered in:

-- Post #1375 (page 69) - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-are-you-thoughts-on-annihilation.201874/post-4691073





...and in Post #1380 (page 69) - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-are-you-thoughts-on-annihilation.201874/post-4691082




The text itself clearly states this.

Well, it's for sure they are all heading to the same place, the everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

With that being said let me ask you this: What exactly do you preach to unbelievers in terms of final judgment? Don't worry about it the worst thing that will happen is that you are going to die once, maybe twice? Party on Garth?

I see no flippant casual message like that in terms of man's ultimate fate post judgment anywhere in the NT. On the contrary it is always solemn, and frighteningly eternal in nature. And a precise mirror image of eternal life in Christ......eternal death without Christ.

And some people don't take kindly to the unlearned and ignorant. Thank God that TDW has the patience of a Saint with us. A lesser soul would have thrown us all under the bus by now.

I hope everyone here can agree that superior due diligence and scholarship comes up with all the right answers.

Scripture makes clear that men are cast or thrown into the same repository as fallen angels and the devil. A place prepared by God for them. A place where they will be tortured (G928 basanizo). A place called Gehenna fire, the lake of fire.

Compare Matt 8:29 (spoken by demons who are aware of their eternal judgement of torture) with
Rev 9:5 (locusts from the pit torturing men....but for only five months).

The phrase that links these two discrete groups of fallen angels and men all together
is Matt 25:41 "into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels".

There are a ton of other Scriptures of course. But when you can nail down doctrine with three or four Scriptures then you can take it to the bank. Especially when it is founded upon the words of Jesus Himself.

Yes some Biblical doctrines are subtle.......but not this one. Scripturally annihilationism does not have a leg to stand on.

Yes. Matthew 25:41 ties it all together. The detractors are looking for wiggle room but in this case there is none of it.

Col 1:28
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus

Warning every man of what? That judgement for sin = taking a nap and never waking up?

Come to think of it I cannot recall any legitimate Church historically or today that maintains a doctrine of Annihilationism. It is much embraced by the cults though.

Anybody care to chime in?

Did you read my replies? I made a great case as to why your interpretation of "destroyed" meaning "annulled" in Hebrews 2:14 is not possible.

I believed in eternal torment up until sometime this year. Know what changed my mind to annihilationism? I studied the Bible and allowed the literal language of the scriptures to guide me. That's it. What got me believing in eternal torment was I took for granted the Bible teaches it. I didn't study what hell really is until this year.

I also want to address more of the content of your post.

What you used is called a strawman argument. "Those people believe in annihilation and some cults also believe in annihilation therefore they're illegitimate." It also uses the "causation equals correlation" logical fallacy. I'm basically pointing out that you aren't using sound reasoning.

Furthermore, you never actually debunked annihilationism. The plain language of the scriptures says that unbelievers perish and are destroyed. Why can't you accept that?

Assuming annihilation is true, what do you say to believers who would choose that over 'heaven'?