Seventh Day Adventist

Amen, Potters Clay! It's curious that so many think it's legalism to keep the 4th Commandment, but it's not legalism to keep the rest? Jesus himself said "If you love me, keep my Commandments. They confuse the Mosaic Law with the 10 Commandments written in STONE by the very FINGER of GOD.

They also say, "Where does it say in the New Testament to keep the 4th Commandment? Well where does it say not to? The first century believers only had the Old Testament and letters addressed to them or shared--of course they didn't have the New Testament Canon! They what the Commandments were--they were 'written on their hearts'. These were memorized as of course they didn't have the scriptures lying around their house.

(Sadly Christians often have a multitude of bibles around the home and at their fingertips and on the internet and but don't even bother to study them and just take tradition and their pastors word for it.. They could take 15 minutes and find easily what the bible says about the Sabbath and how it came to be Sunday-because Constantine decreed it.)

I think many Mormons are ignorant of the history of their church, but so too, are many Christians. Much of the Roman Catholic Church is integrated into our Protestant Churches.

In Acts the believers gathered on Saturday in assembly at the syngogues . and they also were meeting in their homes daily. If we are going to meet one day in the large assembly, then why don't we follow the custom of the first century believers, instead of Constantine and the Roman Catholic Church?

And as you said, how is it burdensome? It is a day to remember God's wondrous Creation--His finished work, which also points to Christ's finished work on the cross and our ultimate rest in eternity with Him.

People quote the verse "He is our sabbath rest." as if that has replaced the literal Sabbath day of rest. Yes spiritually He is our rest. And ultimately in eternity. I believe what Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath."

Just because some have become legalistic about Saturday does not mean we do away with honoring it--no more than we would do away with the rest of the Commandments!

(I'll note again that I have always attended church on Sunday, but have just recently begun to study the matter--why do we keep all the Commandments, but one?)

How can believers ignore this verse and the words of Jesus?

"…2By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome, 4because everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith.…" 1 John 5:3

Conclusion lol?

You know the conclusion. Don't play dumb.

I have responded to some of your above in Red. I am only speaking for myself not the SDA church as a whole.

These are choices I would have to make myself I can only be responsible for me as you are responsible for the choices you make. I would not tell someone they wouldn't be saved if they aren't a SDA as I don't believe that for one moment.

We talk about different SDA beliefs and Jerry/tourist doesn't agree with everything. When I was a kid I was constantly hearing EGWhite says.....until I could barf....I didn't like her much as a kid don't do this don't do that... Who wants anything to do with any of that.

I grew up and learned about her on my own formed my own opinions and found that she was a good Christian lady, pretty humble and prolific writer. Do I agree with everything maybe not. But her main goal was to share the gospel so that lives could be saved. I don't run to her writings for help I go to my Bible for a quote or for searching out the truth.

When I was going to marry Jerry several friends in the church thought it was not a good idea as in unequally yoked... I said to them we both understand salvation and have accepted Jesus as our Savior, what more to each of us need to do? Do doctrines save you? They couldn't answer me. When I asked what more does Jerry need to do? That is how a Seventh Day Adventist ended up married to a Catholic. We went to pre-marriage classes at the SDA church and have been married since 11/27/2014.

In talking and debating with folks you get a feel for their persona and I feel that we are kindred spirits meaning that we both have the desire to learn and know the truth. It sounds as though you also use the Bible as your source of truth and you want people to be saved. When that happens I feel friendship and close to that person and there are many on CC that I have that kindred fellowship feeling with really to me it feels like we are on the same page. We can have different ideas but if you have accepted Jesus and His salvation what else really matters?

And Jesus Lives,

I mentioned this in a previous post--so many 'mainstream churches have a MAN behind them. Think Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith, Church of God, Herbert Armstrong, Foursquare Pentacostal--Amy Semple McPherson. And the Presbyterians --John Calvin. Of course there are so many more I could name.Oh my goodness--when I finally researched the PCA (Pres Churches of America) church I was attended for 7 years, my eyes about popped out of my head--how John Calvin was called the pope of Geneva--how he persecuted people--even having 'drop in' investigations of people's homes--"Oh your dishes are too fancy, your hair is piled to high." And worst of all having a man--thru the city council--Servetus burned at the stake. When I questioned the pastor about my discovery--he knew all about it! His response, "Well that was how things were back then." Seriously? You won't see anyone's house rifled through or a child killed for disobedience to their parent or someone BURNED at the Stake in the New Testament that's for sure!

I've listened to SDA pastor Doug Padgget a few times on Youtube--mostly his debates--and He doesn't go on and on explaining something with his own words, like say Calvin apologist James White does--also White's demeanor is cold and arrogant, whereas Doug can be stiff, but there's a warmth about him. He uses scripture and succinctly elaborates in these debates. I have never heard him mention Ellen White. And only as far as what I've heard from him, he was theological solid. I also heard a debate about the Sabbath with apologist and pastor Steve Gregg--hands down I believe Padgett wins. (understand I have always attended service on Sunday and just recently begun to study it on my own)

However, I am troubled that the SDA Church did not denounce Ellen White since she had prophecies that did not come to pass--the bible is clear that if a prophet prophecies something and it doesn't come to pass we are not to listen to them. I am also disturbed by the 'Great Controversy' and what I've read here about Sunday worship and Mark of the Beast--I hadn't heard of these things until this forum. The vegetarianism is also a bit odd-nothing wrong with being a vegetarian, but I've never heard anything like that before in church-- the bible says not to judge a brother 'weak in the faith' when they believe they can only eat vegetables.

As an aside, it's wonderful to hear your marriage is going strong--may God continue to bless you and bring you joy and happiness in the years ahead.!

When was Sabbath rest said to be about worshiping God?

The 4th commandment does not say that.
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.”

The Hebrew word sabat means "to rest or stop or cease from work." One day out of every seven, the
Israelites were to rest from their labors and give the same day of rest to their servants and animals.
The establishment of the Sabbath day foreshadowed the role of Christ as our Sabbath rest.

There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; For whoever enters
God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. Hebrews 4:9-10


Matthew 11:28-30

Amen, Potters Clay! It's curious that so many think it's legalism to keep the 4th Commandment, but it's not legalism to keep the rest?

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It is legalism if salvation depends on it. If Sunday worship is considered the Mark of the Beast then that does not leave open the door for personal well being.

Jesus himself said

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Galatians 5:13-14
New International Version
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b]

Is this the Word of God? Yes or No?

They also say, "Where does it say in the New Testament to keep the 4th Commandment? Well where does it say not to?

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Colossians 2:16-17
New International Version
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

The first century believers only had the Old Testament and letters addressed to them or shared--of course they didn't have the New Testament Canon! They what the Commandments were--they were 'written on their hearts'. These were memorized as of course they didn't have the scriptures lying around their house.

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They were responsible for what was given just like we are responsible for the info in the NT which is God's Word and commandments as well.

(Sadly Christians often have a multitude of bibles around the home and at their fingertips and on the internet and but don't even bother to study them and just take tradition and their pastors word for it.. They could take 15 minutes and find easily what the bible says about the Sabbath and how it came to be Sunday-because Constantine decreed it.)

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I still see just as much info online to counter the Constantine change theory. But for the sake of debate let's say he did. I say, so what? I do not see the day of Worship as a salvation issue.

I think many Mormons are ignorant of the history of their church, but so too, are many Christians. Much of the Roman Catholic Church is integrated into our Protestant Churches.

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Another debate for another day.

In Acts the believers gathered on Saturday in assembly at the syngogues . and they also were meeting in their homes daily.

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I'm not sure that is accurate. We read that Paul tried for weeks preaching on the Sabbath to the Jews but largely failed as he was being guided to the Gentiles. The Gentiles could not meet in the Synagogues. So we see them meeting in homes, by the well (watering hole), or eventually a church.

If we are going to meet one day in the large assembly, then why don't we follow the custom of the first century believers, instead of Constantine and the Roman Catholic Church?

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We are also told they met during the first day of the week.

“And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight,” (Acts 20:7).

We see communion and teaching being done on the first day as we prolonged his message until midnight.

And as you said, how is it burdensome? It is a day to remember God's wondrous Creation--His finished work, which also points to Christ's finished work on the cross and our ultimate rest in eternity with Him.

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Nothing wrong with this in application to one's life if focused on Christ. Which should be a daily thing.

People quote the verse "He is our sabbath rest." as if that has replaced the literal Sabbath day of rest. Yes spiritually He is our rest. And ultimately in eternity.

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To the Gentile or the Church age the Sabbath is now all about Christ the Lord of the Sabbath who now through His Spirit lives in us. Very much spiritual.

I believe what Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath."

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Agree. Jesus came to redeem and free us from the condemnation of the law. This rest is for man and man can not add, deal, or work his way to that rest.

Just because some have become legalistic about Saturday does not mean we do away with honoring it--no more than we would do away with the rest of the Commandments!

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I agree. The Words of God are extremely important when properly applied, read, and separated.

2 Timothy 2:15
New Living Translation
15 Work hard so you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth.

Some translations say correctly divides the Word of truth.

(I'll note again that I have always attended church on Sunday, but have just recently begun to study the matter--why do we keep all the Commandments, but one?)

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We keep as show above what is repeated in the NT under a new Covenant. The law of Christ is much different than the old law.

How can believers ignore this verse and the words of Jesus?

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We do not ignore but simply see a new covenant of commands.

Thank you for the nice post.. I have a strange background in Adventism. My parents didn't take me to church it was my Aunt Lois on Mother's side that took me weekly with her kids. I also went to Adventist schools except for Kindergarten and 7th grade. I would be a vegetarian at school and go home to a ham dinner. I am not perfect in any way and felt conflicted with what being taught and how I was being raised.

I felt lost for so much of my life because lets be honest back in the day a lot of churches were practicing in a legalistic manner. I had my Baptist friends complaining of not being able to dance and what not and then they would preach in church be perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect or be holy as He is holy. I thought I can't do that. But I would try to do that. I felt like a hypocrite and as a result as a young adult I was on a rotating door with being in and out of church.

It wasn't until I was in my 50's that I truly understood what salvation was and it wasn't fun always feeling like your lost because you're not good enough for so many years. God helped me understand it and I was so grateful to Him. So my goal now is to be more like Jesus and help people want to find their way to him... I keep studying and wanting to learn and share.

Please don't take me or my example to be the SDA persona... look always to Jesus for our perfect example as I am human and not always at my best....thanks again and may God continue to bless you and your family also.

God is holy.

We do not ignore but simply see a new covenant of commands.[/QUOTE] < I have never heard this before--there is no new covenant in regards to the Commandments. They do not save us, but we are called out of love to obey them

There is a lot here to respond to Rough Soul, but I'll make an attempt--I wish before people would respond they would take the time to read more carefully what was written as I feel like I have to reiterate my points, which I believe are quite clear.

As I've already stated--in other posts as well as this post you are responding to,

The 10 Commandments are not the LAW. The Law refers to the MOSAIC LAW.

The verse you refer to is a summation--" For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”--that is different than a replacement. You would have to ignore the other verses which I posted to believe that, such as,

" “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” --John 14:15

"…2By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome, 4because everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith.…" 1 John 5:3

What are the Commandments? The TEN Commandments. Again the verse you quoted is a SUMMATION and NOT a REPLACEMENT.

and by saying it's fulfilled, do you think we can do away with the other 9 Commandments?

Also, as I've state elsewhere --the verse you quoted says 'A' Sabbath, as opposed to THE Sabbath--these Sabbaths are the specials sabbaths or high holy days --they are not 'THE' Sabbath of the 10 Commandments.

I think that is enough for now--I'll come back to this when I have more time...or the inclination--not to be rude, but I don't have much inclination in repeating myself.....

Yeah, on Thanksgiving Day on the strip of Las Vegas.

"Love me tender, love me sweet,
Never let me go.
You have made my life complete,
And I love you so.'

No, we didn't do the Elvis thing down the road at the Little Wedding Chapel. Got married in our room at the Hilton across the street from Circus Circus, with a local SDA minister performing the nuptials and 2 bellhops and a maid as witnesses. I enjoyed very much the complimentary Thanksgiving Day meal at our own special table for getting married in their hotel. Good peeps there all around.

I'm sorry they see you this way. but then again, what Sunday law? I am pretty sure there is nothing in scripture about that, so that would make it spurious and false prophecy

but I guess you know that

Awesome testimony! My wife and I almost didn't marry over being unequally yoked but she was never heavily invested into Mormonism so it wasn't hard in our discussions to show the errors.

Agree. It is the speculation or vision that the Sunday law will be how the beast forces the mark. Part of the control of buying and selling will also be a division of Sabbaths.

Scripture leaves the mark of the beast events largely up to unknowns so according to the Bible we do not know what all will take place.

Reply to #256

She may be the door He uses to bring the husband in.

Genesis 2:

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


Back in the beginning at the end of creation week on the 7th day God rested from creating the world. Later in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment He asked us to Remember.

God created a day of rest on the 7th day of the week and I'm sure Adam, Eve, God and the Angels celebrated and were amazed by the things that were around them and I'm also sure they were in awe of God and His ability in creating everything. To be able to watch from the outside looking in on a scene like that one. They were worshiping/fellowshipping with God on that first 7th day.

God set that first 7th day apart He blessed it sanctified the day which means setting it apart from the other days and by example God rested from His work which is why later He is asking us not to work on that day. Sabbath is a day to rest and spend time with God and family. Usually we worship God when we are spending time with Him...

Might I ask which religion you were raised in?