Fully God and Fully Man, how does that work?
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They were seeing the body of Jesus, not the unclothed Spirit of God. With your logic, those at Pentecost would have died.
1 Timothy 6:15–17, “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion.”
Exodus 33:20, “He [God] said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.’”
Matthew 5:8, “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”
Genesis 32:30, “Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, ‘For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered [or spared].’”
Job 19:26–27, “And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another.”
1 Timothy 6:15–17, “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion.”
Exodus 33:20, “He [God] said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.’”
Matthew 5:8, “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”
Genesis 32:30, “Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, ‘For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered [or spared].’”
Job 19:26–27, “And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another.”
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The Greek noun translated "Word" in John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 basically
refers to spoken words in contrast to unspoken words, i.e. speech vs
thoughts.
That being the case, then I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:3 like this;
"All things were made by God's voice; and without His voice was not any
thing made that was made."
For example Genesis 1:6 where we can observe the power of God's voice in
action; making things.
"And God said: Let there be an expanse . . . .
So then; I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:14 like this;
"God's voice became flesh, and by His voice God made His dwelling among
us."
There are elements of Christianity that defy reason and logic and make no
sense to me whatsoever: God's voice is one of them. I can easily understand
how a person can be a sentient being, but I cannot at all understand how a
someone's voice can be a sentient being when to me a person's voice is just
sound and syllables; but Jesus said that God's voice is active.
• John 6:63 . .The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
_
The Greek noun translated "Word" in John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 basically
refers to spoken words in contrast to unspoken words, i.e. speech vs
thoughts.
That being the case, then I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:3 like this;
"All things were made by God's voice; and without His voice was not any
thing made that was made."
For example Genesis 1:6 where we can observe the power of God's voice in
action; making things.
"And God said: Let there be an expanse . . . .
So then; I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:14 like this;
"God's voice became flesh, and by His voice God made His dwelling among
us."
There are elements of Christianity that defy reason and logic and make no
sense to me whatsoever: God's voice is one of them. I can easily understand
how a person can be a sentient being, but I cannot at all understand how a
someone's voice can be a sentient being when to me a person's voice is just
sound and syllables; but Jesus said that God's voice is active.
• John 6:63 . .The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
_
I guess you have never heard of "the Mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ" (Col 2:2)? Don't try to "figure out" the deity of Christ. Here is what the Bible reveals:
GOD THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE SON IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE SON
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word [the Son], and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7 KJB)
The baptism of Christ in the river Jordan gives us the clearest evidence of three distinct divine persons in one Godhead. We either accept it by faith or reject it to our eternal damnation.
GOD THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE SON IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE SON
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word [the Son], and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7 KJB)
The baptism of Christ in the river Jordan gives us the clearest evidence of three distinct divine persons in one Godhead. We either accept it by faith or reject it to our eternal damnation.
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Well, perhaps you are right . . . or, perhaps you are wrong. In the below passages, who takes responsibility for Circumcision of Heart?
Deuteronomy 30:6 NKJV - "And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live."
Romans 2:29 NLT - "No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."
Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."
Deuteronomy 30:6 NKJV - "And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live."
Romans 2:29 NLT - "No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."
Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."
Jesus is God who came in flesh and when I said how can Jesus be God when He is an omnipresent Spirit that is bigger than a human body I was explaining how Jesus can be considered God although He is in a visible manifestation not that I do not understand Jesus is God.
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Jesus is God who is an invisible Spirit that dwells in the light that no person can approach unto, and no person has seen Jesus and no person will ever see Jesus but He showed a visible image of Himself.
No person can see Jesus as God but we can see Him in the person of the man Christ Jesus.
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Jesus is God who is an invisible Spirit that dwells in the light that no person can approach unto, and no person has seen Jesus and no person will ever see Jesus but He showed a visible image of Himself.
No person can see Jesus as God but we can see Him in the person of the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is God who came in flesh and when I said how can Jesus be God when He is an omnipresent Spirit that is bigger than a human body I was explaining how Jesus can be considered God although He is in a visible manifestation not that I do not understand Jesus is God.
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Jesus is God who is an invisible Spirit that dwells in the light that no person can approach unto, and no person has seen Jesus and no person will ever see Jesus but He showed a visible image of Himself.
No person can see Jesus as God but we can see Him in the person of the man Christ Jesus.
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Jesus is God who is an invisible Spirit that dwells in the light that no person can approach unto, and no person has seen Jesus and no person will ever see Jesus but He showed a visible image of Himself.
No person can see Jesus as God but we can see Him in the person of the man Christ Jesus.
logos, (Greek: “word,” “reason,” or “plan”) plural logoi, in ancient Greek philosophy and early Christian theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning. Although the concept is also found in Indian, Egyptian, and Persian philosophical and theological systems, it became particularly significant in Christian writings and doctrines as a vehicle for conceiving the role of Jesus Christ as the principle of God active in the creation and the continuous structuring of the cosmos and in revealing the divine plan of salvation to human beings. It thus underlies the basic Christian doctrine of the preexistence of Jesus.
The idea of the logos in Greek thought harks back at least to the 6th-century-BCE philosopher Heraclitus, who discerned in the cosmic process a logos analogous to the reasoning power in humans. Later, the Stoics, philosophers who followed the teachings of the thinker Zeno of Citium (4th–3rd century BCE), defined the logos as an active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality. They called the logos providence, nature, god, and the soul of the universe, which is composed of many seminal logoi that are contained in the universal logos. Philo Judaeus (Philo of Alexandria), a 1st-century-CE Jewish philosopher, taught that the logos was the intermediary between God and the cosmos, being both the agent of creation and the agent through which the human mind can apprehend and comprehend God. According to Philo and the Middle Platonists (philosophers who interpreted in religious terms the teachings of Plato), the logos was both immanent in the world and at the same time the transcendent divine mind.
In the first chapter of The Gospel According to John, Jesus Christ is identified as “the Word” (Greek logos) incarnated, or made flesh. This identification of Jesus with the logos is based on Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) concepts of revelation, such as occurs in the frequently used phrase “the Word of the Lord”—which connoted ideas of God’s activity and power—and the Jewish view that Wisdom is the divine agent that draws humans to God and is identified with the word of God. The author of The Gospel According to John used this philosophical expression, which easily would be recognizable to readers in the Hellenistic (Greek cultural) world, to emphasize the redemptive character of the person of Christ, whom the author describes as “the way, and the truth, and the life.” Just as the Jews had viewed the Torah (the Law) as preexistent with God, so also the author of John viewed Jesus, but Jesus came to be regarded as the personified source of life and illumination of humankind. St. John interprets the logos as inseparable from the person of Jesus and does not simply imply that the logos is the revelation that Jesus proclaims.
The identification of Jesus with the logos, which is implied in various places in the New Testament but stated specifically in The Gospel According to John, was further developed in the early church but more on the basis of Greek philosophical ideas than on Old Testament motifs. This development was dictated by attempts made by early Christian theologians and apologists to express the Christian faith in terms that would be intelligible to the Hellenistic world and to impress their hearers with the view that Christianity was superior to, or heir to, all that was best in pagan philosophy. Thus, in their apologies and polemical works, the early Apostolic (Christian) Fathers stated that Christ, as the preexistent logos, (1) reveals the Father to humankind and is the subject of the Old Testament manifestations of God; (2) is the divine reason in which the whole human race shares, so that Heraclitus and others who lived with reason were Christians before Christ; and (3) is the divine will and word by which the worlds were framed.
The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica
This article was most recently revised and updated by Brian Duignan.
The idea of the logos in Greek thought harks back at least to the 6th-century-BCE philosopher Heraclitus, who discerned in the cosmic process a logos analogous to the reasoning power in humans. Later, the Stoics, philosophers who followed the teachings of the thinker Zeno of Citium (4th–3rd century BCE), defined the logos as an active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality. They called the logos providence, nature, god, and the soul of the universe, which is composed of many seminal logoi that are contained in the universal logos. Philo Judaeus (Philo of Alexandria), a 1st-century-CE Jewish philosopher, taught that the logos was the intermediary between God and the cosmos, being both the agent of creation and the agent through which the human mind can apprehend and comprehend God. According to Philo and the Middle Platonists (philosophers who interpreted in religious terms the teachings of Plato), the logos was both immanent in the world and at the same time the transcendent divine mind.
In the first chapter of The Gospel According to John, Jesus Christ is identified as “the Word” (Greek logos) incarnated, or made flesh. This identification of Jesus with the logos is based on Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) concepts of revelation, such as occurs in the frequently used phrase “the Word of the Lord”—which connoted ideas of God’s activity and power—and the Jewish view that Wisdom is the divine agent that draws humans to God and is identified with the word of God. The author of The Gospel According to John used this philosophical expression, which easily would be recognizable to readers in the Hellenistic (Greek cultural) world, to emphasize the redemptive character of the person of Christ, whom the author describes as “the way, and the truth, and the life.” Just as the Jews had viewed the Torah (the Law) as preexistent with God, so also the author of John viewed Jesus, but Jesus came to be regarded as the personified source of life and illumination of humankind. St. John interprets the logos as inseparable from the person of Jesus and does not simply imply that the logos is the revelation that Jesus proclaims.
The identification of Jesus with the logos, which is implied in various places in the New Testament but stated specifically in The Gospel According to John, was further developed in the early church but more on the basis of Greek philosophical ideas than on Old Testament motifs. This development was dictated by attempts made by early Christian theologians and apologists to express the Christian faith in terms that would be intelligible to the Hellenistic world and to impress their hearers with the view that Christianity was superior to, or heir to, all that was best in pagan philosophy. Thus, in their apologies and polemical works, the early Apostolic (Christian) Fathers stated that Christ, as the preexistent logos, (1) reveals the Father to humankind and is the subject of the Old Testament manifestations of God; (2) is the divine reason in which the whole human race shares, so that Heraclitus and others who lived with reason were Christians before Christ; and (3) is the divine will and word by which the worlds were framed.
The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica
This article was most recently revised and updated by Brian Duignan.
This is my view on this ----
The first Adam was created by God the Father speaking His Word ----Who is the Word? ---Jesus is the Word --So The Spoken Word --Jesus --- Created Adam from the dust of the ground -----So the 1st Adam had one nature as he was created from what was created in this world ----Adam was made in the LIKENESS of God only---but Adam was not God -----and Eve was conceived from the bone of the man ---both Adam and Eve were created fully grown and fully human ----
Now in order to understand the 2 natures of Jesus we need to understand that God Cursed Adam after he sinned ----remember Adam was made from the Ground -----God Cursed the Ground --so God cursed Adam himself as he was made from the dust of ground -----
Genesis 3
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, "You shall not eat of it":
"Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return."
I say -------So If Adam is cursed that means the inner workings of his body fluid is cursed -----and that includes his seed ----or semen -----
Posting 2 scriptures to show that one uses seed and one uses semen ----and we are made from corruptible seed ---semen ---
Leviticus 15
New American Standard Bible
‘Now if a man has a seminal emission, he shall bathe all his body in water and be unclean until evening.
King James Version
And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.
I say ----so knowing this above we see that No man can be involved in the conception of Jesus as the seed Jesus comes from has to be holy seed ----not corrupted ----Eve was not Cursed and there is no scripture that says her egg was cursed ----God said she would have pain giving birth ------
We know that Jesus who was the Second person of the Trinity was God ---as Jesus who is the Word created all things ----- The Word became Flesh -----so Mary who was human was chosen ---Mary provided the egg which was not corrupt ----The Holy Spirit fertilised the egg with incorruptible seed and Jesus remained Holy -at His birth he was Blameless ---spotless and free from a sin Nature ------ He never lost His 100% God title ----because He was Born of a Human Woman he also inherited her Human Nature side ---so He was 1 Person with 2 100% different natures -----
And I say thank God He did have 2 natures as He understands how hard it is to live a holy life in this wicked world ----He has lived and experienced what we live and experience -----and can go to the Father and be a Mediator for us ------
The first Adam was created by God the Father speaking His Word ----Who is the Word? ---Jesus is the Word --So The Spoken Word --Jesus --- Created Adam from the dust of the ground -----So the 1st Adam had one nature as he was created from what was created in this world ----Adam was made in the LIKENESS of God only---but Adam was not God -----and Eve was conceived from the bone of the man ---both Adam and Eve were created fully grown and fully human ----
Now in order to understand the 2 natures of Jesus we need to understand that God Cursed Adam after he sinned ----remember Adam was made from the Ground -----God Cursed the Ground --so God cursed Adam himself as he was made from the dust of ground -----
Genesis 3
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, "You shall not eat of it":
"Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return."
I say -------So If Adam is cursed that means the inner workings of his body fluid is cursed -----and that includes his seed ----or semen -----
Posting 2 scriptures to show that one uses seed and one uses semen ----and we are made from corruptible seed ---semen ---
Leviticus 15
New American Standard Bible
‘Now if a man has a seminal emission, he shall bathe all his body in water and be unclean until evening.
King James Version
And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.
I say ----so knowing this above we see that No man can be involved in the conception of Jesus as the seed Jesus comes from has to be holy seed ----not corrupted ----Eve was not Cursed and there is no scripture that says her egg was cursed ----God said she would have pain giving birth ------
We know that Jesus who was the Second person of the Trinity was God ---as Jesus who is the Word created all things ----- The Word became Flesh -----so Mary who was human was chosen ---Mary provided the egg which was not corrupt ----The Holy Spirit fertilised the egg with incorruptible seed and Jesus remained Holy -at His birth he was Blameless ---spotless and free from a sin Nature ------ He never lost His 100% God title ----because He was Born of a Human Woman he also inherited her Human Nature side ---so He was 1 Person with 2 100% different natures -----
And I say thank God He did have 2 natures as He understands how hard it is to live a holy life in this wicked world ----He has lived and experienced what we live and experience -----and can go to the Father and be a Mediator for us ------
I don't like things that others impose on me, such as Jesus must be God's dogma.
The word was God and word of God became flesh.
or the plan was God and plan of God became truth.
Gospel of John
14: Jesus said, "I am the way, truth and life; no one can come to the father without me.
14: If you know me, you will know my father. From now on, you know him and have seen him. "
God is the truth,the way,the life.that we can't see.
Jesus is the truth,the way,the life,that we can see.
Through Jesus' attitude towards sinners, we can understand God's Mercy.Through Jesus, we can learn many mysteries about God.
The most intuitive experience is,When people went to catch Jesus, Peter cut the soldier's ear, but Jesus' attitude was very different from Peter, Jesus healed the soldier's ear.
When Jesus was crucified, Jesus asked God to forgive these people.
Through Jesus we could know the true God.
It's not simply that Jesus is fully God and fully man.This needs us to seriously experience and understand what is true God.
So what is God ?
God is definitely not an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
God is not hate for hate, hurt for hurt.
But
Love for hate.
Forgive for hurt.
and so on.
The word was God and word of God became flesh.
or the plan was God and plan of God became truth.
Gospel of John
14: Jesus said, "I am the way, truth and life; no one can come to the father without me.
14: If you know me, you will know my father. From now on, you know him and have seen him. "
God is the truth,the way,the life.that we can't see.
Jesus is the truth,the way,the life,that we can see.
Through Jesus' attitude towards sinners, we can understand God's Mercy.Through Jesus, we can learn many mysteries about God.
The most intuitive experience is,When people went to catch Jesus, Peter cut the soldier's ear, but Jesus' attitude was very different from Peter, Jesus healed the soldier's ear.
When Jesus was crucified, Jesus asked God to forgive these people.
Through Jesus we could know the true God.
It's not simply that Jesus is fully God and fully man.This needs us to seriously experience and understand what is true God.
So what is God ?
God is definitely not an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
God is not hate for hate, hurt for hurt.
But
Love for hate.
Forgive for hurt.
and so on.
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It is explained in the post that no person can see Jesus as God because He is an invisible Spirit but they can see Jesus as an image of God and He is God manifest in flesh.
Jesus as God has no beginning so He is an invisible Spirit which the Bible plainly states no person has seen Jesus and no person will ever see Jesus.
But we can see Jesus in a visible image in flesh, the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is God and human.
I never said Jesus is not God for He is God, and a sinless man.
Jesus as God has no beginning so He is an invisible Spirit which the Bible plainly states no person has seen Jesus and no person will ever see Jesus.
But we can see Jesus in a visible image in flesh, the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is God and human.
I never said Jesus is not God for He is God, and a sinless man.
So then although the Scriptures say "in all things He had to be made like His brethren...was in all points tempted as we are, (yet without sin)," (with Phil 2v7,8)
You seem to be saying that His humanity was indeed different than that of other humans?
Would that be a fair to say?
If so, you're well down the road of "docetic gnosticism," which John (and other NT writers) wrote against! John 4v1-6, 2John v7.
You seem to be saying that His humanity was indeed different than that of other humans?
Would that be a fair to say?
If so, you're well down the road of "docetic gnosticism," which John (and other NT writers) wrote against! John 4v1-6, 2John v7.