Any Historically orthodox Christians here?

Does anyone on this forum embrace or value the various Christian confessions and creeds of the churches?

Jesus said:

"And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Matt 16:18, ASV)

Jude wrote:

"Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1:3, ASV)

On the major doctrines of the Christian faith, the faith that was once for all delivered, that Jesus said the gates of Hades would not bring down; on these major doctrines should we not see a general agreement among the denominations of the body of Christ through the centuries?

Does anyone on this forum embrace or value the various Christian confessions and creeds of the churches? I have in mind the 3 Ecumenical Creeds and denominational confessions such as the Westminster Standards of the Presbyterians, the old Baptist Confessions, the Book of Concord of the Lutherans or The 39 Articles of the Church of England/ Episcopal? Are there any on this site who value the commentaries of various denominations in history, where they agree on the major doctrines of the faith such as the commentaries found online here: https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng.html

When one chooses to believe and teach doctrines opposed to these major doctrines of the churches of Christ, is that not the very definition of heresy?

The Oxford online: "heresy - Belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine."

I don't necessarily agree with that definition of heresy because, according to that, a belief just needs to be contrary to orthodox Christianity to be heresy. Meanwhile, orthdox Christianity is littered with heresies.

It's more accurate to say that heresy is not the same thing as poor Biblical interpretation. It's better to say heresy is something not contained in the Bible.

Yes I'm aware that the line between poor Biblical interpretation and extra-Biblical doctrines are often blurred in the hearts, minds, souls, and eyes of many Christians.

I didn't look at all of the creeds, but the Apostle's Creed contains heresy for example. Jesus didn't suffer under Pontius Pilate. Pilate absolved himself of Jesus' murder by leaving the decision to set Jesus free or crucify Him up to the roaring mob.

Christ chose 12 men to directly teach and called them apostles, not disciples. These 12 mean established the first Christian churches. Paul was made an apostles miraculously in the years he spend in Arabia. When false teaching or heretics rose up, the main churches just quietly spoke the truth. They stood united and firm on the gospel and what Christ taught but they tolerated differences in interpretation like Saturday bs. Sunday for worship, as Psul teaches us. It was a small group of men, but powerful and growing.

Then along came Constantine, a powerful dictator, who decided to help the church by applying worldly rules of leadership. Before, problems were taken to those whose teaches were from the apostles, now councils of men solved problems of the church. The OT became writings for the Jews who were looked down on. Before, the church did not fight with enemies, now heretics were aggressively handled. The church changed in many ways.

I think we should study and copy the church of the first 300 years, before Constantine changed it.

Christ chose 12 men to directly teach and called them apostles, not disciples. These 12 mean established the first Christian churches. Paul was made an apostles miraculously in the years he spend in Arabia. When false teaching or heretics rose up, the main churches just quietly spoke the truth. They stood united and firm on the gospel and what Christ taught but they tolerated differences in interpretation like Saturday bs. Sunday for worship, as Psul teaches us. It was a small group of men, but powerful and growing.

Then along came Constantine, a powerful dictator, who decided to help the church by applying worldly rules of leadership. Before, problems were taken to those whose teaches were from the apostles, now councils of men solved problems of the church. The OT became writings for the Jews who were looked down on. Before, the church did not fight with enemies, now heretics were aggressively handled. The church changed in many ways.

I think we should study and copy the church of the first 300 years, before Constantine changed it.

I'd come to suspect that this forum is indeed a real hodgepodge of religious thought, seems more like doctrinal anarchy. Would the church that Jesus Christ built ever be recognized in this? Where would we find the faith once for all delivered to the saints here. The faith amounts to more than just John 3:16.

I had looked in vain to find any poster who claimed a denominational name, or even better still a Confession of Faith to which they hold as accurate as humanly possible. I'm beginning to believe that I've erred in my choice of a forum to join.

Jesus said:

"And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Matt 16:18, ASV)

Jude wrote:

"Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1:3, ASV)

On the major doctrines of the Christian faith, the faith that was once for all delivered, that Jesus said the gates of Hades would not bring down; on these major doctrines should we not see a general agreement among the denominations of the body of Christ through the centuries?

Does anyone on this forum embrace or value the various Christian confessions and creeds of the churches? I have in mind the 3 Ecumenical Creeds and denominational confessions such as the Westminster Standards of the Presbyterians, the old Baptist Confessions, the Book of Concord of the Lutherans or The 39 Articles of the Church of England/ Episcopal? Are there any on this site who value the commentaries of various denominations in history, where they agree on the major doctrines of the faith such as the commentaries found online here: https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng.html

When one chooses to believe and teach doctrines opposed to these major doctrines of the churches of Christ, is that not the very definition of heresy?

The Oxford online: "heresy - Belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine."

Christ chose 12 men to directly teach and called them apostles, not disciples. These 12 mean established the first Christian churches. Paul was made an apostles miraculously in the years he spend in Arabia. When false teaching or heretics rose up, the main churches just quietly spoke the truth. They stood united and firm on the gospel and what Christ taught but they tolerated differences in interpretation like Saturday bs. Sunday for worship, as Psul teaches us. It was a small group of men, but powerful and growing.

Then along came Constantine, a powerful dictator, who decided to help the church by applying worldly rules of leadership. Before, problems were taken to those whose teaches were from the apostles, now councils of men solved problems of the church. The OT became writings for the Jews who were looked down on. Before, the church did not fight with enemies, now heretics were aggressively handled. The church changed in many ways.

I think we should study and copy the church of the first 300 years, before Constantine changed it.

Is it your belief that the church is held together by creeds and confessions? That's what I hear you saying; correct me if I'm wrong.

You wrote: "the Apostle's Creed contains heresy for example. Jesus didn't suffer under Pontius Pilate" Do you not understand how idiotic that sounds??


John 19:6 Pilate said take him and crucify him

Matt. 27:24 Pilate washes his hands saying he was innocent

John 18:31 The Jews said it was unlawful for them to put him to death

John 19:10 Pilate tells Jesus that he has power to crucify Jesus

Luke 23:24 Pilate sentenced Jesus

Luke 23:25 Pilate imprisoned Jesus

and they bound him, and led him away, and delivered him up to Pilate the governor. (Matt 27:2, ERV)

Then released he unto them Barabbas: but Jesus he scourged and delivered to be crucified. (Matt 27:26, ERV)

I charge thee in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; (1Tim 6:13, ERV)

The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against his Anointed: for of a truth in this city against thy holy Servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together, to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel foreordained to come to pass. (Acts 4:26-28, ERV)

amen the biblical Church that’s written before the warnings came from paul and Peter about false doctrines pulling people from the truth of the gospel

The body of Christ in history and especially following the Protestant Reformation exists in various denominations. The early church formulated what are called by many, the three Ecumenical Creeds teaching about the Trinity and without the Trinity you do not have the body of Christ. After the Reformation various churches formulated their Confessions of Faith such as the Book of Concord by the Lutherans, Westminster Standards by the Presbyterians, the 39 Articles of the Church of England/Episcopal, the First and Second London Confessions of the Baptists, etc. There is much agreement on the fundamentals of the faith as found in these early documents. For instance, I have felt comfortable sitting in a Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian church worship service as well as my own 'original' Baptist denomination. When I began to see the lies taught in the independent, fundamentalist Baptist church I was raised in; I purchased the documents of the various denominations in existence in the early years of America, back when God blessed America. I was amazed at the similarity of teaching on salvation. One thing I noticed was the clear teaching of unconditional or unmerited election found in them all, which is so solidly based on the Bible and defended against freewillism by Martin Luther in his Bondage of the Will:

"And it is this very state of the truth, that of necessity proves "Free-will" to be nothing at all; seeing that, the love and hatred of God towards men is immutable and eternal; existing, not only before there was any merit or work of "Free-will," but before the worlds were made; and that, all things take place in us from necessity, accordingly as He loved or loved not from all eternity. So that, not the love of God only, but even the manner of His love imposes on us necessity. Here then it may be seen, how much its invented ways of escape profit the Diatribe; for the more it attempts to get away from the truth, the more it runs upon it; with so little success does it fight against it!" https://www.truecovenanter.com/truelutheran/luther_bow.html#pt2

Most so-called Protestants, Baptists today teach what was the Roman Catholic doctrine they held on free will and works! It amusing because some who are so vocally anti-Papist teach Roman Catholic doctrine on the matter of works, freewill and predestination. If you doubt me, read the Roman Catholic Commentary that is online. Read its comments on Acts 13:48, James 2:18, Rom. 3:20, Eph. 2:8. You notice the comment on Eph. 2:8 clearly adds works to faith for salvation because Catholics blend justification and sanctification into one doctrine.

Luther in the preceding from Bondage of the Will, is refuting the teaching of the Roman Catholics in this book, Erasmus in particular here. Today in the US there are over 200 various churches and groups, and most in this day have turned 'faith' into a work therefore meriting salvation by their belief or adding works. There certainly cannot be 200 versions of God's truth. The churches of Christ were given instruction in the Scripture:

"knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation. For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Ghost." (2Pet 1:20-21, ERV)

A true child of God has the indwelling Holy Spirit to help and illuminate the words that he inspired to be written. The church also has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not going to teach an individual a private interpretation and the overall church another. Of course the denominations vary in modes of baptism and in organization of church government; also there are liturgical churches like the Lutheran and Anglicans; but the body of God's truth is in agreement among them.

Even the Arminian theology of the early Methodists, such as found in the British Methodist commentator Adam Clarke, is a much more accurate belief system than you hear preached by the many pulpits today. I did not purchase the Methodist Confession to study when I left the fundamentalists, because it was mainly a movement within the Church of England and only became a separate denomination officially or legally in 1784. Date taken from the 14th Edition(2018) of Denominations in the US.

Maybe I should have looked for a statement of beliefs or standards on this Forum before joining.

You say faith in the gospel, but scripture says faith in Christ. We are told that Christ came to say repent, for the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN has come near. There are 128 times the gospel speaks of this kingdom and how to live in it. We are to have faith in what Christ says.

How many of us bless our enemies and even the heretics, by doing good for them and simply telling them the truth? How many never, once murder as Christ explains murder? How many of us truly want God's kingdom to be our first loyalty and our home and not the kingdoms with treasures of the flesh?

The Lord sets a high standard, but He covets us with His righteousness when we miss the mark. The only thing is that we are to WANT to not miss the mark of the high standards God sets for us, we are to repent.

You say faith in the gospel, but scripture says faith in Christ. We are told that Christ came to say repent, for the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN has come near. There are 128 times the gospel speaks of this kingdom and how to live in it. We are to have faith in what Christ says.

How many of us bless our enemies and even the heretics, by doing good for them and simply telling them the truth? How many never, once murder as Christ explains murder? How many of us truly want God's kingdom to be our first loyalty and our home and not the kingdoms with treasures of the flesh?

The Lord sets a high standard, but He covets us with His righteousness when we miss the mark. The only thing is that we are to WANT to not miss the mark of the high standards God sets for us, we are to repent.