Did Adam's kids commit incest among themselves to achieve posterity?

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randyk

randyk

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#81
Jan 14, 2021
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#81
oyster67 said:
Repenting IS adopting Christ's Way. Come to the Cross with a humble contrite heart today. Total surrender to the love of Jesus is not an OT work. Come as you are. Only God can make you clean inside. Not by thine own effort, but by the soul cleansing power of the Blood.
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Sorry, but you're just quoting "religious language" that sometimes lacks full comprehension of the issues. Clearly, we *do* make *our own effort*--otherwise, it would be Jack or Jill's effort, and that wouldn't suffice, would it? Moses can't repent for us--we must repent for our own wrong doings.

So yes, *we* make the effort to repent. But the *work of redemption* belongs to Christ alone, and *we* must act *in partnership with his Spirit* in order to produce saving virtue, ie works that follow us after death.

You're exactly right, though. True repentance is giving up our own autonomous life for a life of dependence upon Christ. It is "Christ in me, the hope of glory."
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#82
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#82
randyk said:
Yes, wherever the Lord goes, He requires a holy environment. Since He has mercy He doesn't destroy all impurities immediately, but gives laws to enable people to conform over time. But if people refuse to conform ultimately they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.
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How is this any different than what the jewish religious elite taught?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#83
CorrectiveLens said:
God gave them one commandment : don't eat of the tree. So they were under law. When they acquired a conscience by eating of the tree, that affected their posterity.
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The command not to eat was a test. not in reality a law

will you follow me or will you follow yourself.

Adam and eve sinned before they even took the fruit to eat.. That was just the proof that they rejected Gods provision. and chose to serve self.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#84
Dec 18, 2021
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#84
oyster67 said:
Repenting IS adopting Christ's Way. Come to the Cross with a humble contrite heart today. Total surrender to the love of Jesus is not an OT work. Come as you are. Only God can make you clean inside. Not by thine own effort, but by the soul cleansing power of the Blood.
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blessed are those who are poor (in the greek bankrupt) in spirit for there's is the kingdom.

The tax collector became bankrupt in his heart. The pharisee did not
 
randyk

randyk

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#85
Jan 14, 2021
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#85
Everlasting-Grace said:
How is this any different than what the jewish religious elite taught?
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I'm not sure who you're referring to by "the Jewish religious elite?" I certainly believe what God taught the Jewish leaders under the Law of Moses when that religious system was still in effect!
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#86
randyk said:
I'm not sure who you're referring to by "the Jewish religious elite?" I certainly believe what God taught the Jewish leaders under the Law of Moses when that religious system was still in effect!
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I am talkin gof those who thought it was by the law we were made right with God. and ended up crucifying our savior
 
randyk

randyk

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#87
Everlasting-Grace said:
I am talkin gof those who thought it was by the law we were made right with God. and ended up crucifying our savior
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Okay, thanks. However, this just begs the question: are you saying it was "wrong" for the Jews to obey the Law, or are you saying it is "wrong" for Christians to follow the Law?

Clearly, Christians are not under the Law, but neither are we antinomians. We believe we can cooperate with the Holy Spirit and produce good. We don't earn our own salvation--redemption came only by Christ. But we can, I believe, exercise free will to choose to follow Christ, and even to accept him to start with.

So I guess I'm getting lost regarding what the issue here is? We can simply agree that we Christians are not to follow the Law of Moses.

But the principles contained within the Law continue to be in effect in Christ. This is a *new* covenant, and not the old one.

And so, instead of following Moses, we follow Christ. And we believe that all of the righteousness of the Law was fulfilled in him, who has now instituted a system of both morality and grace.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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#88
randyk said:
Okay, thanks. However, this just begs the question: are you saying it was "wrong" for the Jews to obey the Law, or are you saying it is "wrong" for Christians to follow the Law?
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No one has followed the law. The law makes everyone guilty before God. The jews thought they kept it. Its why they crucified Christ. Because he told them the did not. And told them they were guilty.

Clearly, Christians are not under the Law, but neither are we antinomians. We believe we can cooperate with the Holy Spirit and produce good. We don't earn our own salvation--redemption came only by Christ. But we can, I believe, exercise free will to choose to follow Christ, and even to accept him to start with.

So I guess I'm getting lost regarding what the issue here is? We can simply agree that we Christians are not to follow the Law of Moses.

But the principles contained within the Law continue to be in effect in Christ. This is a *new* covenant, and not the old one.

And so, instead of following Moses, we follow Christ. And we believe that all of the righteousness of the Law was fulfilled in him, who has now instituted a system of both morality and grace.
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I am not sure you understand what I am saying
 
randyk

randyk

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#89
Everlasting-Grace said:
No one has followed the law. The law makes everyone guilty before God. The jews thought they kept it. Its why they crucified Christ. Because he told them the did not. And told them they were guilty.
I am not sure you understand what I am saying
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I understand now, and it's a form of antinomianism--the idea that nobody could keep the Law. Obviously, I don't agree with that. God gave Israel the Law to keep--not to ignore it, nor to try only to fail.

What you're doing is taking "religious language," and applying it in the wrong way. It's true that nobody is *justified* under the Law. However, the context for that statement is Eternal Salvation, and has nothing to do with being able to keep the Law.

To "keep the Law" is only "religious language." It can refer to living in obedience under the Law or to the attempt at finding eternal justification under the Law. You are referring to the latter, but also applying it to the former.

So in my opinion, you're wrong, because Israel could in fact obey the Law. David said it so many times in the Psalms. Moses said it also--in fact, he demanded it. God gave the Law to keep, not for the purposes of Eternal Justification, but only in preparation for that event, when Christ came.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#90
Dec 18, 2021
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#90
randyk said:
I understand now, and it's a form of antinomianism--the idea that nobody could keep the Law. Obviously, I don't agree with that. God gave Israel the Law to keep--not to ignore it, nor to try only to fail.

What you're doing is taking "religious language," and applying it in the wrong way. It's true that nobody is *justified* under the Law. However, the context for that statement is Eternal Salvation, and has nothing to do with being able to keep the Law.

To "keep the Law" is only "religious language." It can refer to living in obedience under the Law or to the attempt at finding eternal justification under the Law. You are referring to the latter, but also applying it to the former.

So in my opinion, you're wrong, because Israel could in fact obey the Law. David said it so many times in the Psalms. Moses said it also--in fact, he demanded it. God gave the Law to keep, not for the purposes of Eternal Justification, but only in preparation for that event, when Christ came.
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Paul disagrees with you.

The purpose of the law was to lead to christ.

One can not be led to Christ is they could keep the law. In fact. They would not need. Christ.
 
randyk

randyk

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Jan 14, 2021
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#91
Everlasting-Grace said:
Paul disagrees with you.

The purpose of the law was to lead to christ.

One can not be led to Christ is they could keep the law. In fact. They would not need. Christ.
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I'll ask you to reconsider. Paul could and did say that Israel kept the Law and prepared for Christ in that way. The trouble is, their observance of the Law merely magnified their sin, even in their righteousness, so that it was clear--only Christ could redeem them. Flawed priests could never do the job!
 
randyk

randyk

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#92
Jan 14, 2021
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#92
Matt 19.17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

Matt 3.11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. "

Matt 11.11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Matt 5.17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. "

The Law was beautiful and glorious, but the Grace of Christ was much greater. The Law led men to live in righteousness and to please God. But it couldn't bring eternal life because in giving men a temporary reprieve it exposed the fact that they were unclean and were unqualified to inherit eternal life.

And so the Law was preparatory. When Jesus came he did not denounce the system of Law, but instead declared that it was designed to lead to his final sacrifice. The animal sacrifices had been merely temporary, a mitigation until final deliverance could be brought.
 
C

CorrectiveLens

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#93
Dec 30, 2020
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#93
randyk said:
Okay, thanks. However, this just begs the question: are you saying it was "wrong" for the Jews to obey the Law, or are you saying it is "wrong" for Christians to follow the Law?

Clearly, Christians are not under the Law, but neither are we antinomians. We believe we can cooperate with the Holy Spirit and produce good. We don't earn our own salvation--redemption came only by Christ. But we can, I believe, exercise free will to choose to follow Christ, and even to accept him to start with.

So I guess I'm getting lost regarding what the issue here is? We can simply agree that we Christians are not to follow the Law of Moses.

But the principles contained within the Law continue to be in effect in Christ. This is a *new* covenant, and not the old one.

And so, instead of following Moses, we follow Christ. And we believe that all of the righteousness of the Law was fulfilled in him, who has now instituted a system of both morality and grace.
Click to expand...
When Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they developed a conscience which is handed down to all their descendants. We are all born with this conscience and are therefore under the law to do good and refrain from evil. When God gave Moses the commandments, it was the specifics of the law to " do good and refrain from evil ". We are not capable of obeying this law and therefore are cursed to destruction. But God in His mercy and love provides a way for salvation through Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and perfection through the power of the Fathers Holy Spirit. Christ's laws of loving God with all your heart, mind, and soul and your neighbors as yourself can only be accomplished when the Holy Spirit fills your heart with that same love shared by the Father and Christ. When we follow the Spirit of the Law, all our thoughts and actions are motivated by that same love and we follow the original law to " do good and refrain from evil.

It's so simple, but people who don't get it make it complicated.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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Dec 15, 2018
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JesusIsTheAnswer said:
Wh

What is the meaning of He entered into his rest? This is where the rib out of Seth and Cain theory fails the test. Did He create again after the Seventh Day?
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what test

Are you trying to test God? I dont think thats allowed.

So...after you have a rest do you just never create again. hmm
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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Dec 15, 2018
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#95
Cain KILLED Abel so...I dont really think he commited incest with his brother...he was more guilty of murder first...!
 
K

Knowledged

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Dec 25, 2021
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ResidentAlien said:
Well, there doesn't seem to be any other explanation.



I don't have "deep scholarly roots" but none is required. There was no Torah, or "Law," before Moses. The Law came in when it did for a specific purpose in God's plan; that is, to demonstrate man's sinfulness. It didn't come out of desperation.

But I have a feeling this isn't going to satisfy you as it's too simple.
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Abraham kept the Law! and He was before Moses
Gen.26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandment, my statues, and my laws.
 
K

Knowledged

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Dec 25, 2021
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#97
JesusIsTheAnswer said:
So I was just wondering how Adam's kids managed to find wives when they were none except their sisters and if they did sleep with their sisters then why was that right in the creation context and wrong in the Torah? Does the law change for desperate circumstances hence the verse "I will show mercy to whom I will, I am the Lord". Can someone with deep scholarly roots in the Bible explain this to me please?[/QUOTE

All you have to do is read the Scripture!

Gen. 5: 1-2 This is the book of the generations of of Adam. In the day that God created man, in his likeness of God made he him (next verse explains it)
vs2 Male and female created he Them and called Their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Gen. 5:2 says male and female created he them, created he THEM the scripture said there were multiple males and multiple females created and called THEIR name Adam, Adam just means earth because God formed Man from the dust of the ground Gen. 2:7
For example the fish you thought God just threw two fish in a big old ocean and told them hab at it Noooo!
he created multiple kinds of fish birds and all creature. Stop following these doctrines of men.
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
“ Let the Bible speak” it explains itself!
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K

Knowledged

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Dec 25, 2021
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#98
Everlasting-Grace said:
The command not to eat was a test. not in reality a law

will you follow me or will you follow yourself.

Adam and eve sinned before they even took the fruit to eat.. That was just the proof that they rejected Gods provision. and chose to serve self.
Click to expand...
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
vs6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy path.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#99
Dec 18, 2021
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#99
Knowledged said:
Abraham kept the Law! and He was before Moses
Gen.26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandment, my statues, and my laws.
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Abraham Kept the law?

since when is adultry being a law keeper?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#100
Dec 18, 2021
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#100
Knowledged said:
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
vs6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy path.
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You still have not answered my questions.

What was the purpose of the law?

And what was the requirement or the standard by which it was required to be kept?
 
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