Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

Yeah I have to agree. I also like the way the Lord will use the literal in a symbolic way to emphasis a attribute and our connection to Christ. While I would never push this or declare this as doctrinal by any means. I just smile and think wow Lord you really do bring it all full circle so that every jot and tittle gives praise and glory to Christ. So with that said what I have found is cool is we know that after Christ was risen he has a new body that is made of flesh and bone. To which we know that we will be like him.

We go back to Genesis and after Adam receives Eve he makes the comment how she is bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. So from the start we can see God's divine plan. So I just find it cool in even the literal natural how God can speak to what will be a greater spiritual understanding of him and his divine plan and how Christ will end up with the glory and praise.

Hey, Still learning, Look at this as well, and see there's more Jesus, Paul and John had to say about our future body:

When asked as to who of the 7 deceased husbands was going to have the woman they married to in the afterlife, Jesus said they were mistaken...

[Luk 20:35-36 NASB95] 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

John:
[1Jo 3:2 NASB95] 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Paul:
[1Co 15:42, 44 NASB20] 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable [body,] it is raised an imperishable [body;] ... 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual [body.]

[Phl 3:19 (c)-21 NASB95] 19 ... who set their minds on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

The following passages ascertain the existence of sin and death (for the sole reason that the ones populating the Millennium era will still be in bodies of flesh, just as we are now, only living longer (like in the first chapters of Genesis); therefore, it'll be a time where man will still be in need of believing for salvation.

[Isa 65:20 NIV] 20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

And all the allies of Gog and Magog who by the end of the Millennium will be going against Israel are evidence of the same:

[Rev 20:7-9 NIV] 7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

And regarding the believers from the millennium, we would't think them to just evaporate, but to also receive their respective share in the resurrection of life.

By doing that, you are creating MORE THAN 1 resurrection.

There is only 1. It will occur when Jesus Christ returns as King. Period. At that time, all believers, living or dead, will receive their glorified bodies. I don't believe that there will be ANY humans saved during the Millennium.

Rather, we see a global rebellion at the end of the Millennium.

Rev 20-
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Sure doesn't sound like a description of believers.

Anyone who becomes a believer AFTER the single resurrection of the saved at the Second Advent will NEVER have an opportunity to receive a glorified body.

FreeGrace2 said:
That is rather naive.

The Bible says that Satan leads "the whole world astray" and "deceives the whole world".

Neither John nor Paul gave any exceptions.
That is just your own private interpretation of what "if that were possible" means.

Since both Paul and John WROTE that the devil deceives and leads the WHOLE WORLD astray, I believe them.

And I gave an example. In over 2,000 years of Christianity, just look across evangelicalism and see how much unity there is. Satan has people in TOTAL disagreement, such as the Calvinists vs the Arminians.

There is a lot of error in evangelicalism today. Some are convinced that water baptism is required for salvation. Some think works are required for salvation in addition to faith. And on and on and on. Some believe that Jesus will come BEFORE the Trib and take belivers to heaven. Others are convinced there is just 1 resurrection of the saved which will occur at the Second Advent.

That proves that there has been a LOT of deception among believers.

Maybe you are. Are you aware that Judas Iscariot was one of the 'chosen'? John 6:70,71. Yet, he was never saved.

No, He didn't say that. You are simply inserting your own understanding of it.

You need to let go of your "multiple" first fruits ideas. They have NO relevance to a rapture.

The subject of 1 Cor 15 is the resurrection of saved people.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

So, we see that ONLY Jesus Christ is called the firstfruits. And what follows is EVERYONE else who belong to Him. And that is WHEN He returns to earth, which is the Second Advent.

Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

This is why Jesus is called the firstfruits. He is the FIRST human to receive a glorifed body.

ALL other believers will receive theirs "when He comes" at the Second Advent.

Case solved.

FreeGrace2 said:
Not sure of hyour point here. But receiving a glorified body isn't about going to heaven.
It should be obvious that Paul was writing to people who would ALL die and GO TO HEAVEN. That explains the "army" that will accompany Him back to earth at the Second Advent. Rev 19.

So, YES, the vast majority of believers are already IN HEAVEN. And they will receive glorified bodies at the single resurrection of the saved, which is at the Second Advent.

So, receiving a glorified body isn't about going to heaven. In fact, NONE of the saints already in heaven have a glorified body.

So my statement stands.

Yes.....I agree that is the description of the sixth trumpet army.

(I love this leftist transference approach)......who mentioned Trinity?
I said God and the Son Christ.

Arnold Fruchtenbaum - The Rapture
Lets wrap this up folks. The Pre-Trib rapture is....scripturally immutable, incontrovertible and inevitable. It's all here. Answers all detractors.

The living do not need a resurrection.

Of course they could. They could be changed like those who were alive and remained.

Someone needs to study and learn about the Trinity obviously.

Apparently Arnold Fruchtenbaum never read Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, 1 Cor `5:23, all which teach that there is a single resurrection for the saved. And we all know what is called "the rapture" occurs WITH the resurrection. 1 Thess 4.

So let's just admit that Arnold isn't a very well read person.

He also never quoted any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.

So to call a pretrib rapture "immutable, incontrovertible and inevitable" is really just laughable.

He has no evidence at all.

What verse shows another rapture, or the giving of a glorified body to people? That's what is needed to accept multiple resurrection/raptures.

The Bible teaches just ONE for the saved.

"""He also never quoted any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven"""

Really?
Show me where Jesus takes them.
I will wait

Jesus returns with the saints after the wrath

Show me the rapture and any resurrection other than the gwtj, AFTER the wrath.(gwtj occurs after the mil)
I will wait.

"""So to call a pretrib rapture "immutable, incontrovertible and inevitable" is really just laughable."""

Noah
Lot
Acts1
Mat25
Mat 24
Rev19
Rev14


You sit there and accuse others of omission, WHILE omitting those verses your CAMP pretends aren't there

The rapture is world wide

The second coming on horses is local.

No resurrection in conjunction with horses.
No rapture either.
AHEM.....Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Rev 14:14 ( a gathering which os niether the main rapture or the second coming)
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Will await your rabbit trail that neither acknowledges or reconciles the impossibility of your camps position.

Reframing noah is your main key to the multitude of red flags in your camp.
Psssst...you need noah delivered AFTER the flood.
Lot removed AFTER sodom destroyed.