Let's talk about the elephant in the room

that sounds like the best way not to spread the virus.

stop at post 21

Uh, I'd have to disagree there! It's God's "law." How unwholesome can it be? Wishy-washy "do what your heart desires" preaching is more to blame. God said don't do it, so I don't! I look at it more as God's instructions to me to holy living; how to walk before a holy God.

1 John 3:4 (ESV) Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

We need more pastors today warming the pews, preaching against sin and, yes, preaching from the "law." I'm going to say the real problem is a lack of "Hell-fire-and-brimestone burn the chaff and see who remains" preachers giving us God's instructions so we know how to live holy lives. And that means preaching the "law," balanced by the gospel.

The real problem with what you say is that without the "law" there is no need for grace! If God never said "don't," then what is there to forgive when you do? Grace was as abundant in the OT as in the New. Without it all would have ended with Adam. The patriarchs were all extended grace when they failed. And even David was extended grace after committing sexual sin with Bathsheba and compounding that by having her husband killed! Was that grace not wholesome?

My Bible has 66 books, all the inspired word of God. I am loath to do away with any of them, especially the first 5 books of the law wherein I clearly see what is expected of me. So yes, preach grace, but preach it correctly. Preach that it all comes together in the person of Jesus. But preach also the "law," because without it grace is meaningless. And if you believe as I do that Jesus is God, and if you believe God spoke to Moses "face to face" (Exodus 33:11) and that it was God who gave Moses the "law," then those first 5 books are extremely important "to the good wholesome preaching of the grace of God in Christ Jesus."

Justbyfaith...I respect your being right in how we should be with His help. How sinning is one thing we should NEVER get comfortable with.

He is supernatural and all powerful, able to make us sufficient in all ways...

but...

that doesn't mean we are not susceptible to human error. We will always need His Guidance and Grace, we will alway be in the process of growing in Him, praise be to Him!! Praise the Lord, He will present us blameless one day, but that won't be because we in and of ourselves are.

Just my opinion.

Being inappropriate from the woman's perspective may be completely innocent from the man's perspective...

Just ask Cuomo...

I'm in agreement with you there...

However, I would say that if you define sin as the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), that we can come to a place in our walk where we can no longer sin (1 John 3:9).

As concerning the spirit of the law, not the letter (Galatians 6:13, Romans 7:6, Romans 8:4).

If you define sin as "to miss the mark of perfection" or as human error, then I agree that we are all susceptible to that.

But if you define sin as walking according to the flesh, I believe that scripture teaches (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)) that we are not obligated to obey the flesh.

Therefore, while sin is inevitable for those who do not have the Holy Ghost, to say that it is inevitable for those who do, is false doctrine and heresy, in my opinion.

We are all sinners. Jesus forgave the woman at the well, he condemned the pharisees (Matt 23). Loving others as we love ourselves, we show compassion and the desire to forgive. Condemnation has never worked. Righteousness cannot be forced. In the fullness of time, God will heal us all. Those who are controlled by the flesh will see what they value most in this life destroyed.

They are judged according to human standards by us in the flesh but in regard to God they will live in the spirit. The answer is love. It will require patience that only God has. He does have it. h will heal. He will wipe away all tears from every face. We were all born sinners that he could save us. Until then the only thing we can do is love, forgive and ask him to work through us to rescue each other from the bondage of sin.

Please, enough with the "we're all sinners" line. Yes we're all sinners, but truly repentant sinners man up and take responsibility. They don't try to give us "my ministry made me do it." The devil made me do it might carry some weight. But my ministry?? C'mon.

Any minister of Jesus Christ who doesn't have enough sense to know what's inappropriate from a woman's perspective doesn't have any business teaching God's word. If he doesn't have the good sense to discern what's appropriate in this world, why should he be trusted with spiritual matters.

If Stone wasn't a shyster I might cut him some slack. But he's clearly been working the religion con for years.

Those who are born again cannot sin (1 john 3:9).

If I give someone a hug and the woman to whom I give the hug was molested as a child and therefore she takes that hug the wrong way as though I were making sexual advances to her, it does not change the fact that I hugged her innocently.

There may be extenuating circumstances in the life of any woman wherein she may perceive something innocent as being predatory.

I think that it is being overly sensitive to consider that every woman was molested as a child and therefore I should not give a hug to women in the church; that woman needs to get over her sexual hang-ups and realize that a hug given innocently from brother to sister has nothing sexual in its nature. Her perception that it does would be based on something that is practically almost unique to her; and to not even give side-hug to women in the church would be a prohibition of expressing phileo love to a sister.

We re commanded not only to hug brothers and sisters but to greet one another with a holy kiss. Now, we don't do that today because a kiss is considered to be sexual in nature in today's society; but to give a side-hug to a sister is an expression of phileo love and ought not to be prohibited; even though a woman who has been abused may indeed take such a thing the wrong way

Thanks for your insight. I could not agree more. Ask King David how useful the law is.

Not true. The spirit man does not sin, but the flesh still exists and is still able to sin. We do not have to sin, but that is not the same thing.

I agree let's start with the public school system that abuses children and is hidden in the very school they teach at. They use children's protection laws to prevent the public from knowing the details of the abuse on the child because they are a minor.

Let us start placing those teachers and preachers in jail and hold leaders accountable who are soft on this crime. And let's hold those accountable who cry wolf and ruin people's lives by the lie.

1 John 1:8-10
The Message
8-10 If we claim that we’re free of sin, we’re only fooling ourselves. A claim like that is errant nonsense. On the other hand, if we admit our sins—simply come clean about them—he won’t let us down; he’ll be true to himself. He’ll forgive our sins and purge us of all wrongdoing. If we claim that we’ve never sinned, we out-and-out contradict God—make a liar out of him. A claim like that only shows off our ignorance of God.

Verse 9
Doeth no sin (αμαρτιαν ου ποιε). Linear present active indicative as in verse 1 John 3:4 like αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

His seed (σπερμα αυτου). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. 1 John 3:1.

And he cannot sin (κα ου δυνατα αμαρτανειν). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were κα ου δυνατα αμαρτειν or αμαρτησα (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive αμαρτανειν can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8 and αμαρτανων in verse 1 John 3:6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see αμαρτητε and αμαρτη in 1 John 2:1. A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of αμαρτανειν here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 επιμενωμεν τη αμαρτια (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with αμαρτησωμεν in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rwp/1-john-3.html

The meaning of the text is we do not live a lifestyle of sinning.

Simply ask permission to give a hug.

I read the thread title and am amazed at how everyone is still dancing around the elephant in the room and doesn't notice it or see it.

It isn't internet porn.
It isn't physical intimacy with spouses.

It's a massive attitude issue. One endemic in America and many Westernized cultures.

Its been so long since anyone has been under true leadership that no one recognizes it anymore. There are so many wolves in the sheep we don't even know what a true sheep looks like anymore.

Are there tares in the wheat field or are there just a few strands of wheat in a tare field?

Sermons are boring. My life has never been changed by listening to one. (I don't know anyone who has) But we elevate these sermon tellers to unheard of heights and then mourn when they fall.

You are licensing your own sins by supporting these people and propping them up as heroes. DUH! A man's words are worthless. People will say anything to get what they want. Shallow flattery and ego stroking are the predominant messages these charlatans promote.

Not a one of them have a humble lifestyle. Not a one of them have severe medical issues they struggle with. (Although they might talk a molehill into a mountain). They are always attractive people set up in very expensive clothes that you cannot ever hang out with on a personal level. It just doesn't happen.

Look, if I was wanting to just "hang out" with any of the pastoral staff from my church...say over dinner or breakfast at the local waffle house they are available. Maybe even go to the batting cages to hit some balls. They are there for that. If I or my wife was in the hospital they would definitely show up.

But we don't have that much in common so we don't ask. I love crafting and craftsmanship...they are interested in other things. And discussing biblical scholarship is going to start an argument or groaning...not my idea of a good time. But these guys are true leaders. Kinda.
I've watched their families grow over the decades...we have had a genuine relationship over the years.
And we have influenced each other by that relationship.

I understand that a pastor has a political position and he has a whole congregation to appease. So I am not always going to agree with everything he does. But that doesn't mean that I don't know when he's in real trouble and why. Even if he doesn't say anything.
And if he doesn't accept help...it's going to be a fatal problem with his job.

It's our relationships that are crucial...not the fluff said on Sunday. My relationship with others I made in the congregation that are the single most important thing in a church.

Anything else is simply playing church...not being a church.

What if you see the elephant poo in your pyjamas?

I think you are wrong, if you go after sin armed with the law [thou shalt not lust] which actually is what people do the incidents of lust will become rampant and that also is what is happening.

What is needed is good doctrines. Bad doctrines spawn bad practices.

The thing about the law is it needs judges to oversee and administer it .... the danger of judgementalism is as great as the problem of lust in the first place.