Doctrine of Unconditional Election

You call scripture truth calvinism and scoff at it,

You scoff and call scripture testimony calvinsm, call it a mans teaching.

He is propitiation for the world to come, not this current world. This world is to be destroyed.

Again Christs blood was shed only for His elect, chosen from among the whole world.

Why don't you quit repeating yourself and just listen to the evidence?

Did you read my post on TULIP? Or were you afraid to?

If your claim about were true, you would have a verse that says so. But all you do is repeat your opinion. No Scripture at all.

I, otoh, have given you verses that clearly tell us the purpose of election.

1 Cor 1-
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,

Red words are what God has CHOSEN. Blue words are the purpose for which God CHOSE them. Nothing about salvation.

1 Peter 1-
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Again, the red words indicate who is CHOSEN. Blue words indicate the purpose of being CHOSEN.

Now, if CAN quote a verse that shows election is to salvation, please quote it.

However, if you CANNOT quote a verse that shows election is to salvation, please QUIT saying it.

FreeGrace2 said:
I showed that the verses you have given don't teach truth, but calvinism. See my previous post which refutes TULIP.

The problem here, bf52, is that you just don't like what I post.

When will you use the truth against me and refute my explanations of TULIP with Scripture?

The reason is clear: there aren't any verses that will refute my explanations, that's why.

All you've been giving are your opinions. Which is fine, but you certainly can't convince anyone by opinions. You need evidence.

I have provided that evidence but you resist and reject it.

FreeGrace2 said:
How come you have NEVER proven this statement? If it were true, there would be at least one verse that plainly says so.

But there isn't. In fact, there are a number of verses that specifically say He died for all or everyone.

The red verses clearly show that Christ died for everyone, or the verses couldn't be true.


No, bf52. I don't scoff at Scripture, as you opine in gross error. I provide verses that SAY what I believe. Which is WHY I believe it.

Mark 16:15: preach the Gospel to every creature. If Calvin was right, this makes no sense.

John 6:40 For this is the will of the Father, that everyone (pas) who beholds and believes on the Son may have eternal life.

John 6:29 and Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work (ergon) of God, that you believe on Him whom He hath sent. ‘ergon’ means deed, labor, work

John 12:32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

John 1:7 He (John the Baptist) came for a witness, that he might bear witness of the Light (Christ), that all (pas) might believe through him.

John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world. That's everyone in humanity.

John 3:16, 17 For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) …not to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.

John 4:42 This One is indeed the Savior of the world.

John 17:21 that they may all be one, even as thou, Father, art in Me, and I in thee, that they also may be in Us: that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me.

John 20:31 but these have been written (in order) that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His Name. (goal of John’s Gospel)

Luke 9:55-56
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them." And they went to another village.

Acts 17:27 God did this (created mankind) so that men would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. (see also Heb 11:6 regarding mankind having the ability to look for God, in contrast to point 1 of Calvinism)

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now He commands all (pas) people everywhere to repent. See also 2 Pet 3:9

Rom 5:6 In due time, when we were without strength, Christ died for the ungodly (that’s every human), not just the “elect” per point 3 of Calvinism. Consider Rom 3:23 ‘for ALL have sinned, and come short’

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass (Adam’s Fall) was condemnation for all (pas) men, so also the result of one act of righteousness (Cross) was justification that brings life for all (pas) men. [Adam’s fall affects the entire human race, and Christ’s atonement also affects the entire human race]

Rom 11:32 For God has bound all (pas) men over to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all (pas). Cf: Rom 3:23, 6:23, Rom 5:6,8 All humans are sinful and Christ died for all of them.

Rom 3:23 For all (pas) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Luke 19:10 "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." In 5 point Calvinism, elect aren’t really “lost” since they were elected, so just what does this verse mean? Obviously, the entire human race is lost and is in need of a Savior. So the Son of Man came to seek and save the entire human race.

2 Cor 5:14,15 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And He died for all (pas), that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for Him who died for them and was raised again.

2 Cor 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone (pas).

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all (pas) men.

1 Tim 1:15 - Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners-of whom I am the worst. See Rom 3:23, 6:23 salvation is potential for all humanity!

*** 1 Tim 2:3,4 This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants all (pas) men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth (Christ-Jn 14:6, Jn 8:32, 12:32) Note the potential: Christ wants all men to be saved. The concept of limited atonement just doesn’t fly in light of this verse.

1 Tim 2:6 Who gave Himself as a ransom for all (pas) men, the testimony given in its proper time.

*** 1 Tim 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all (pas) men, and especially (malista) of those who believe.
Malista: chiefly, most of all, specially

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, (has not predetermined that) but everyone (pas) to come to repentance.

*** 1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole (holos) world. Holos: all, all together, every whit, throughout, whole

Rev 22:17 Whosoever wishes, (let him) take the water of life freely. [eternal life is a free gift] and it is potential; in other words, man has free will to believe or reject God’s promise of eternal life through Christ.

***1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world.

Notice exactly WHO has been bought by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Cor 7:23: You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. [believers]

2 Pet 2:1: But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. [unbelievers]

The Greek word for “bought” is the same in both verses, ‘agorazo’

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


By saying “our sins” he is referring to those who are saved.

By saying “not ours only but also for the whole world”, it’s clear he is referring to those who are not saved.


I know how desperate you are to try and make this passage say what fit’s your unbiblical narrative, but all you are doing is exposing your error.



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16




Please explain for us who is excluded from the phrase the whole world.








JLB

I dont have anything against scripture, you do, by scoffing it calling it calvinism.

You reject scripture truth about unconditional election and scoffingly call it calvinism, after a man !

I have no roblem with those verses.

Its you who scoff scripture that proves unconditional election to salvation.

Those verses speak of Gods elect from among the jews and gentiles.

This would be just another example of adding to the scripture, and thus twisting it to make it fit your unscriptural narrative.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



Notice that the phrase “the world to come” is not stated, quite the opposite.

By saying “our sins” he is referring to those who are saved.

By saying “not ours only but also for the whole world”, it’s clear he is referring to those who are not saved.



Please repent of twisting the scriptures, as nothing good will come from it.

Please post the scripture you are referring to.

No, I've NEVER called Scripture "calvinism". Ever.

It is the calvinists who think their views are Scriptural.

If you have a problem with my take on TULIP, why don't you address each of the points and prove to me that I am wrong by quoting Scripture that clearly says differently than I have stated.

If you can't do that, then what I have posts stands.

Here is the problem of calvinism. The "U" in TULIP.

Calvinism claims election is to salvation. I have shown from Scripture that it is to service. No calvinist has a verse showing that election is to salvation.

Further, even if election were to savlation, it CERTAINLY IS conditional. Salvation is conditioned upon FAITH in Christ.

John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, Acts 16:31 and many more.

This proves that calvinism is WRONG about the "U" in TULIP. And I have done that with ALL the letters.

Please revisit my explanation on TULIP and show me my error.

And please stop saying that I call Scripture "calvinism". The opposite is true. Calvinism calls their views as Scripture.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


By saying “our sins” he is referring to those who are saved.

By saying “not ours only but also for the whole world”, it’s clear he is referring to those who are not saved.


I know how desperate you are to try and make this passage say what fit’s your unbiblical narrative, but all you are doing is exposing your error.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Then prove it from the context.

Which, of course, you can't. Because there is NO context even speaking about "the elect".

jpt explained who "our sins" refers to and who "the sins of the whole world" refers to.

So, since you disagree, please prove it with Scripture.

There is no problem with unconditional election, its Gods Truth.

You call it by the name of a man, thats scoffing.

The doctrine is seen in scripture before calvin was even thought about.

Those verses are about the elect, jew and gentile.

Exactly, and please explain how a person can trust Christ whom he doesn’t believe.


Maybe you can answer my question that I have asked you many times in different forums.

• How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
• And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
• And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14