Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

Sure, while it is alive and exists...because the soul is the "I" the "ego" the "self" the "person"...the WHOLE BEING comprised of its two parts, the Body and the Breath of Life.

At death, the Spirit returns to God as it was when it left, the Body returns to the dust, and the Soul ceases to be, according to Genesis 2:7 KJV.

I'm not dishonest.

In 2006 I was pulling down $10,000/month putting in crazy hurricane restoration OT, but when forced to work on Sabbath, I refused and got fired.

Having won a precedent setting arbitration case by God's grace and was rehired, recently, I was pulling down $18,000/month working the same crazy hurricane restoration OT, but passing up $1200 Saturdays because I wanted to "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Why would I sacrifice so much to keep the Fourth Commandment, then climb on CC and willfully break the Ninth Commandment?

If you can't discuss spiritual propositions without attacking one's character, you prove yourself to be spiritually immature and have no business in a Bible discussion chat room. Please, let's all be agreeable as we disagree, OK?

Yes, it is speaking of Christians...but if we look at Romans 2:7-9 KJV, we discover that while the righteous who "seek" immortality will eventually be granted it, the wicked who do not seek it do not get it.

That's why John said, "Whosever hateth his brother is a murderer...AND YE KNOW THAT NO MURDERER HATH ETERNAL LIFE ABIDING IN HIM."

Q. How can there be a never-ending hell if there is no never-ending murderer?
A. It can't be -- "...for the former things are passed away."

Are we just going to ignore what is clearly and contextually symbolism?

Do fir trees and cedar trees rejoice?
Do they know whether the lumberjack is on the job or not?
Can the dead actually talk?
The smartest man who ever lived says plainly, "no".

The Immortal Soul crowd talks out of both sides of its mouth. They claim martyrs go straight to heaven and "be present with the Lord" .... but then they claim they're trapped under some earthly altar crying out for vengeance.
WHICH IS IT?

You see, this is what I mean by the Immortal Soul/Eternal Torment crowd always resorting to making literal what should be immediately understood as symbolic in order to establish their position.

.



Do you honestly believe that God would actually be content associating with
people forever all the while their inner man is corruptible-- that part of them
that's hostile towards God, not subject to the law of God; neither indeed
can be?

I'm looking forward to taking full possession of an incorruptible body same
as you, but I'm also looking forward to obtaining full possession of the
incorruptible inner man spoken of by 2Pet 1:3-4.

I've yet to find an example of Jesus speaking of the divine nature with the
exact same two words found in Peter's epistle. rather, Jesus spoke of it as
eternal life, which is the very same thing as divine nature; only by a
different name.

The best thing is: human life is corruptible, whereas eternal life isn't
because it's the life in God. Whereas human life has an intrinsic preference
for evil; the life in God has an intrinsic preference for just the opposite.

I have no clue how God performs this rather unusual miracle, but He is able
to remove their natural life and furnish folks with His life so that there will
never again be any more friction between Himself and them: only harmony.
In my judicious estimation, this particular element of the plan of salvation is
the icing on the cake, the bees knees, and the cat's meow all rolled into one.
_

Psalms 91, which is clearly referring to the coming of our Lord, when the wicked are rewarded with death and the righteous rewarded with "long life" eternal and salvation from the Second Death.

A tattoo of a battleship across his chest would stretch from California to Arkansas LOL

There is nothing in all the Bible to corroborate the claim that "Abraham's Bosom" is a geolocation. You're basing your interpretation purely on an assumption. Also, if Jesus is being "figurative" in the passage, that means the passage is not literal. Can it be both literal and figurative at the same time? Or course not.

Yes I STRONGLY agree with Jesus. Luke 16 is literal as are Abraham, Moses and Lazarus!

Consider the 1 Cor 15
No, the spiritual body is not immortal as it is dependent of the One that giveth. We will die as any other animal and be resurrected contingent of the Judgement of God. The bible clearly states this.

Consider eternal punishment
How many times has "eternal punishment" be used in the NT? I will answer for you. Once and only by Matthew. If the premises are
1) eternal punishment was referenced - (it was used only once - there can be no other correlation)
2) the spiritual body is immortal - (It is in conflict with other verses - 1 Timothy 6:16 for one)

All the premises are disagreeable. The doctrine of hell seems to have a lot of occult threads.
Consider "eternal punishment" is the literary device "contrast". See below.

Paraphrasing
Christians with the mark, followers who fear the world rather than love God.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Reason and excuse of the hypocrites.
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Rejecting the doctrine of hell which asks you to fear hell more than God is actually a little thing.

Literary device contrast - contrast punishment = reward , contrast life = death. Reward is life eternal , eternal punishment = death
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Death is needed to be resurrected.
1 Cor 15:35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. 38But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body.

Adam was made. Jesus grants the Spirit
1 Cor 15:45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Why was Adam flesh and Jesus Spirit?
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first was of this earth. Jesus is from heaven.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

What is flesh flesh, the spirit spirit
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

We are animal but we have the representation of His nature. We are not immortals. Do not worship the image of self, as it is idolatrous.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Consider the 1 Cor 15
No, the spiritual body is not immortal as it is dependent of the One that giveth. We will die as any other animal and be resurrected contingent of the Judgement of God. The bible clearly states this.

Consider eternal punishment
How many times has "eternal punishment" be used in the NT? I will answer for you. Once and only by Matthew. If the premises are
1) eternal punishment was referenced - (it was used only once - there can be no other correlation)
2) the spiritual body is immortal - (It is in conflict with other verses - 1 Timothy 6:16 for one)

All the premises are disagreeable. The doctrine of hell seems to have a lot of occult threads.
Consider "eternal punishment" is the literary device "contrast". See below.

Paraphrasing
Christians with the mark, followers who fear the world rather than love God.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Reason and excuse of the hypocrites.
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Rejecting the doctrine of hell which asks you to fear hell more than God is actually a little thing.

Literary device contrast - contrast punishment = reward , contrast life = death. Reward is life eternal , eternal punishment = death
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Death is needed to be resurrected.
1 Cor 15:35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. 38But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body.

Adam was made. Jesus grants the Spirit
1 Cor 15:45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Why was Adam flesh and Jesus Spirit?
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first was of this earth. Jesus is from heaven.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

What is flesh flesh, the spirit spirit
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

We are animal but we have the representation of His nature. We are not immortals. Do not worship the image of self, as it is idolatrous.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Talkers to the dead spirits anyone?
Deuteronomy 18:9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
>>> paraphrase "the Wisdom of God, don't mix it up with pagan dung"

Deuteronomy 18:10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
>>> paraphrase "what they did in the valley of hinnon, was occult dung"

Deuteronomy 18:11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
>>> paraphrase "spirits of the dead can talk - not"

Deuteronomy 18:12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
>>> paraphrase "you are Commanded to drive these teachings from your midst"

Deuteronomy 18:13Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
>>> paraphrase "be sinless"

Deuteronomy 18:14For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
>>> paraphrase "it is Commanded, don't believe in the god of this world, or Else"

As good an explaination as any.
It is just saying they are with abraham in paradise.
" welcomed in love" ...and embrace

Low heat? Tell that to the rich man.

"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"

YOUR Hell is not Biblical. "Eternal", "everlasting", and "forever and ever" is the Biblical Hell fire. You don't know those are all in the NT?

Yes I STRONGLY agree with Jesus. Luke 16 is literal as are Abraham, Moses and Lazarus!

"Abraham's bosom" is the name of a section of Hades (Sheol).
The Bible tells us where Sheol/Hades is located:

“As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open; and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions. So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly.” (Numbers 16:31–33)

“Let death come deceitfully upon them; Let them go down alive to Sheol, For evil is in their dwelling, in their midst.” (Psalm 55:15)

“Let us swallow them alive like Sheol, Even whole, as those who go down to the pit;” (Proverbs 1:12)

“Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones...Nevertheless, you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit...Those who see you will gaze at you, They will ponder over you, saying, ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,” (Isaiah 14:16)

““Son of man, wail for the hordes of Egypt and bring it down, her and the daughters of the powerful nations, to the nether world, with those who go down to the pit;” (Ezekiel 32:18)

““I made the nations quake at the sound of its fall when I made it go down to Sheol with those who go down to the pit; and all the well-watered trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, were comforted in the earth beneath.” (Ezekiel 31:16)

“then I will bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of old, and I will make you dwell in the lower parts of the earth, like the ancient waste places, with those who go down to the pit, so that you will not be inhabited; but I will set glory in the land of the living.” (Ezekiel 26:20)

“When He ascended on high, He led a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men.' (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?” (Ephesians 4:8–9)


Sheol/Hades is down inside the depths of the earth. It is where the spirits of mankind wait for judgment. The righteous went to Abrahams' bosom (also called "Paradise") to wait for their sins to be judged on the cross of Jesus. The wicked still go to the torment side (across the great gulf) to wait for their sins to be judged (before God's throne- Rev 20). They can see each other and talk to each other. As disembodied spirits, they are quite "alive". That is why one of my references say, "Let them go down alive to Sheol".

No man can cry "I am in torment in this flame" if he's on fire. All you will hear is him shrieking in unspeakable pain until he's no longer conscious.

It's...a...parable.

I think Paul spoke of three parts somewhere, forget where and don't have time to look it up.

"With this in mind, is humanity dichotomous (“cut in two”) or trichotomous (“cut in three”)? In other words, do we have two parts (body and soul-spirit), or do we have three parts (body, soul, and spirit)? It is impossible to be dogmatic. Theologians have differed over this issue for centuries, and there has never been a decisive orthodox declaration of which is true. " https://www.gotquestions.org/body-soul-spirit.html

"

• Scripture clearly teaches trichotomy: (1) 1 Thessalonians 5:23; (2) Hebrews 4:12; (3) 1 Corinthians 3:14 – 3:4; and (4) 1 Corinthians 14:14

" https://biblearchive.com/blog/man-as-body-soul-spirit-or-trichotomy/

https://bible.org/seriespage/2-man-trinity-spirit-soul-body

Basically, Scripture is progressive revelation. In Genesis Man was body and soul. In the N.T. three parts of man.

According to the book of Revelation, "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever..."