Russia Preparing for War.
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Well, that is a very big subject that deserves a thread all to itself. However, let me just say that we are to speak the truth in love, to have an answer for everyone who asks, the reason for the hope that lies within us. We are to make the good confession, to bear true witness when someone's life and reputation are on the line. These things are all biblical.
But you make a very good point. The art of speaking truth in the right spirit and with the right perspective is critical if we are to have a good Christian witness. If we speak about lofty things that challenge our limited education and experience we should speak with humility, prepared to adjust our thinking. There's nothing wrong with speculating, or asking. I think it's a responsible thing to bring Christian truth into every area of our society.
For example, if we don't address the issue of crime, Christianity will seem to have no answers, and will leave things vague and lacking truth. If we don't speak to politics or foreign affairs, how are people to judge the issues, lacking the ability to apply Christian truth to each situation?
But number one, we have to have the right attitude, with charity and humility. And secondly, we must study to show ourselves approved, ensuring that we have the right facts. There's no problem addressing issues with an incomplete knowledge if we're humbly trying to discover all the facts.
I've found that a few central Christian truths help me to apply Christian truth to politics and to society. One, we are to judge things by separating the Christian society from the secular society which may be mixed Christian and pagan. Christian truth applies differently within Christian society than it does within pagan society.
We cannot back our country's foreign policies if they aren't truly Christian. We can support the Christian parts they do. But we cannot support the things about those foreign policies that are not Christian.
Also, we must accept by necessity submission to flawed political establishments. We do not have to approve of it in order to properly submit to an order that has been established by God. I would have to address each issue separately if I'm to be more clear on this.
But you make a very good point. The art of speaking truth in the right spirit and with the right perspective is critical if we are to have a good Christian witness. If we speak about lofty things that challenge our limited education and experience we should speak with humility, prepared to adjust our thinking. There's nothing wrong with speculating, or asking. I think it's a responsible thing to bring Christian truth into every area of our society.
For example, if we don't address the issue of crime, Christianity will seem to have no answers, and will leave things vague and lacking truth. If we don't speak to politics or foreign affairs, how are people to judge the issues, lacking the ability to apply Christian truth to each situation?
But number one, we have to have the right attitude, with charity and humility. And secondly, we must study to show ourselves approved, ensuring that we have the right facts. There's no problem addressing issues with an incomplete knowledge if we're humbly trying to discover all the facts.
I've found that a few central Christian truths help me to apply Christian truth to politics and to society. One, we are to judge things by separating the Christian society from the secular society which may be mixed Christian and pagan. Christian truth applies differently within Christian society than it does within pagan society.
We cannot back our country's foreign policies if they aren't truly Christian. We can support the Christian parts they do. But we cannot support the things about those foreign policies that are not Christian.
Also, we must accept by necessity submission to flawed political establishments. We do not have to approve of it in order to properly submit to an order that has been established by God. I would have to address each issue separately if I'm to be more clear on this.
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Sigh. That's an interpretation that goes back 2,000 years and did not age well. In a sense, you could say the NWO is a spiritual descendant of Rome, but can you really say that Rome fulfills all the following?
-Pollutes her land
-Kills her own people
-Wealthy consumerist nation
-Peoples of the world flow into her (immigration)
-Immigrants come to perform manual labor for her
-Rules over the kings of the Earth
-Deceives the nations with her sorceries (pharmakeia)
-Merchants of the world do commerce with her
-Is God's battleaxe and weapons of war, used by God to lay waste to the nations
-Made the whole world drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication (originator of the sexual revolution, main producer of porn)
-Guilty of the blood of children
-Ascended to the heavens
-Will be destroyed by civil war and then fire
-Contains a large population of Christians whom God tells to flee
-Contains a large population of Jews
-Has a wall which will fall
The Bible has a lot to say about Mystery Babylon. When you combine everything that Revelation, Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah say about her, it's obvious we aren't talking about ancient Babylon. It's also not Rome, unless you think Rome is going to rise again to be a world superpower.
-Pollutes her land
-Kills her own people
-Wealthy consumerist nation
-Peoples of the world flow into her (immigration)
-Immigrants come to perform manual labor for her
-Rules over the kings of the Earth
-Deceives the nations with her sorceries (pharmakeia)
-Merchants of the world do commerce with her
-Is God's battleaxe and weapons of war, used by God to lay waste to the nations
-Made the whole world drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication (originator of the sexual revolution, main producer of porn)
-Guilty of the blood of children
-Ascended to the heavens
-Will be destroyed by civil war and then fire
-Contains a large population of Christians whom God tells to flee
-Contains a large population of Jews
-Has a wall which will fall
The Bible has a lot to say about Mystery Babylon. When you combine everything that Revelation, Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah say about her, it's obvious we aren't talking about ancient Babylon. It's also not Rome, unless you think Rome is going to rise again to be a world superpower.
Absolutely. Rome fulfills all that because Rome spawned the 4th Beast, which extends from the ancient Roman Empire to modern European Civilization. Modern Rome is a 10 horned beast with 7 heads, which is 10 states with 7 leaders, the Antichrist presiding over it all ultimately. Both the city of Rome and the Antichrist Empire will be destroyed.
In the time the Revelation was written, Rome killed Christ and his apostles, and persecuted the Church. But it was converted in the time of Constantine and Theodosius, ultimately becoming the Western and Eastern Empires. This imperial tradition has continued in European Civilization ever since, and has continued to exist in both Western and Eastern divisions.
I do believe these two divisions will come together to form a modern day Roman Empire, and the Antichrist will become its emperor. Some of what John showed us was fulfilled in its ancient phase, and clearly some of it has a future phase, yet to be seen.
In the time the Revelation was written, Rome killed Christ and his apostles, and persecuted the Church. But it was converted in the time of Constantine and Theodosius, ultimately becoming the Western and Eastern Empires. This imperial tradition has continued in European Civilization ever since, and has continued to exist in both Western and Eastern divisions.
I do believe these two divisions will come together to form a modern day Roman Empire, and the Antichrist will become its emperor. Some of what John showed us was fulfilled in its ancient phase, and clearly some of it has a future phase, yet to be seen.
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Yes strange it is that although on the political issues I believe The Russians are the aggrieved party and Washington and NATO the aggressors we must never lose sight of the fact that spiritually Israel is the core issue and that whatever comes to pass Russia will be part of that coalition which will attack Israel.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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I think that we are only on the first of the four beast-kingdom superpowers of Daniel 2. If so, there likely remain hundreds of years of history yet. The second beast kingdom is the ravenous bear, which I believe to be Russia. It is possible that the Ezekiel war involving Russia and Israel may actually be how Russia ends once her time of dominion is over.
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I don't see how that can be, it being that the 1st Kingdom in Dan 2 was identified as Babylon? The beasts were depicted in Dan 7, and is controversial for some. But it seems to follow the same order as given in Dan 2.
Dan 2.36 “This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.
Dan 2.36 “This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.
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Yes, you are correct. I meant Daniel 7.
Some commentators, like Matthew Henry, have said that Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 are the same list of nations, but they are not. At the end of the list of nations in Daniel 2, we see Christ's Advent depicted. These are the four kingdoms before Christ's birth. In Daniel 7, we see Christ's return depicted. These are the four kingdoms before the end of history.
Some commentators, like Matthew Henry, have said that Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 are the same list of nations, but they are not. At the end of the list of nations in Daniel 2, we see Christ's Advent depicted. These are the four kingdoms before Christ's birth. In Daniel 7, we see Christ's return depicted. These are the four kingdoms before the end of history.
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I've had this debate before on another forum, and I'm not sure it will be profitable to pursue this if you've heard all of the arguments already? Mention of the coming Kingdom in Dan 7 does not necessarily imply that the 4 Beasts must all be fulfilled in the endtimes! I personally think that both Dan 2 and Dan 7 list 4 Kingdoms that do in fact lead to the endtimes. They all lead to Rome, the 4th Kingdom, which continues in some form until the coming of Christ's Kingdom.
The argument used against this in my earlier debate concerned the claim that in Dan 7 the 1st Beast cannot be Babylon. All 4 Beasts are presented as if they are *future* to Daniel.
But this may just be a literary convention, grouping the set of 4 together as future, even though the 1st Beast is presently taking place. They are, I think, being looked at from a past prophetic point of view, as 4 Kingdoms that together constitute a lead up to the coming Kingdom of God.
But I understand that you see it differently. That's okay.
The argument used against this in my earlier debate concerned the claim that in Dan 7 the 1st Beast cannot be Babylon. All 4 Beasts are presented as if they are *future* to Daniel.
But this may just be a literary convention, grouping the set of 4 together as future, even though the 1st Beast is presently taking place. They are, I think, being looked at from a past prophetic point of view, as 4 Kingdoms that together constitute a lead up to the coming Kingdom of God.
But I understand that you see it differently. That's okay.
I so agree with you JStates. I was taught that back in the `70`s and it has stood me in good stead as I have watch prophecy unfold regarding those 4 great Federations. Even the emblems that Daniel described are or have been used by those powers.
Getting Dan. 2 7 Dan. 7 mixed up has been a big error over the years and locked people into the RRE view. Clearly the terrifying 4th beast is Islam and is proving correct as they tread down people in many places of the world today.
Hope this diagram will help others see the difference.
Getting Dan. 2 7 Dan. 7 mixed up has been a big error over the years and locked people into the RRE view. Clearly the terrifying 4th beast is Islam and is proving correct as they tread down people in many places of the world today.
Hope this diagram will help others see the difference.
