The modern nation of Israel is not the biblical nation of Israel

KrisWampler · Jan 28, 2022

I’m confused as to why so many evangelicals adore the modern nation state known as Israel. This is not the same Israel of the Bible.

The modern nation known as Israel was created by the United Nations, a satanic and anti-biblical supranational organization. The ancient nation of Israel was specially created and ordained by God.

Now some may object that God used the UN to create Israel. But He already created Israel. Why would He need to again? If anything, the OT prophets repeatedly promised destruction of Israel, which was carried out with the Babylonian exile. There’s no indication that any sort of restoration would be through a godless wanna-be world government.

That fact alone should dispense with the notion that modern Israel bears any resemblance to the Israel of the Bible. But also consider the depravity of the modern state. For instance, it recognizes same-sex marriages performed outside the country. Tel Aviv is proud to be a “gay friendly” city. Pretty sure the Israel of the OT would frown upon that.

Modern Israel is a counterfeit of the biblical Israel in every way.

blueluna5 · Jan 28, 2022

It's prophesied of their return.

Talking about the end times:
The days are coming,’ declares the LORD, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the LORD.” Jeremiah 30:3

It doesn't matter how it comes about. The ending was told already. Similar to if you go to a doctor and they save your life. You don't say well the doctor saved me, not God.

Roughsoul1991 · Jan 28, 2022

KrisWampler said:

I’m confused as to why so many evangelicals adore the modern nation state known as Israel. This is not the same Israel of the Bible.

The modern nation known as Israel was created by the United Nations, a satanic and anti-biblical supranational organization. The ancient nation of Israel was specially created and ordained by God.

Now some may object that God used the UN to create Israel. But He already created Israel. Why would He need to again? If anything, the OT prophets repeatedly promised destruction of Israel, which was carried out with the Babylonian exile. There’s no indication that any sort of restoration would be through a godless wanna-be world government.

That fact alone should dispense with the notion that modern Israel bears any resemblance to the Israel of the Bible. But also consider the depravity of the modern state. For instance, it recognizes same-sex marriages performed outside the country. Tel Aviv is proud to be a “gay friendly” city. Pretty sure the Israel of the OT would frown upon that.

Modern Israel is a counterfeit of the biblical Israel in every way.

Biblical Israel was often a counterfeit to God's commands. They are under the same rebellion and blinding. It is no surprise the modern Israel is just as pagan as their ancestors often were.

KrisWampler · Jan 28, 2022

blueluna5 said:

Restoring is one thing and it’s not the same as creating an entirely new nation. I find it hard to simply say that it would be accomplished by any means necessary, including the godless UN.

Dino246 · Jan 28, 2022

I too have trouble believing that the modern state is related in any way to ancient Israel. God restored Judah and Benjamin to their land after the Babylonian exile, but the other ten tribes didn’t return en masse. Further, God ended ancient Israel thoroughly in 70 AD after they rejected His Messiah.

While there are significant evangelistic efforts in modern Israel, they mostly reject Jesus as well. There are also lingering questions about the lineage of those now claiming to be Jews.

Rondonmon · Jan 28, 2022

KrisWampler said:

Well, I am the one to unconfound your troubled soul. I do it by God's OWN WORDS to Ezekiel. If one wishes to deny this then God has to be lying.

Ezekiel 37:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest. 4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. 5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

So, God Himself told Ezekiel to Prophesy hat those He brought out of all the nations of the world were the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel.

This isn't even debatable, these are God's own words to the prophet Ezekiel.

So, where to you guys get off road?

There were never any lost tribes, every one of the 12 tribes had people (SEED) living in Jerusalem when the 10 tribes were toted off, thus there were never any lost tribes, that's a myth. But since they all lived in Judah they over time became known as Jews, just like Italians who moved to New York 50-100 years ago are ow knw as New Yorkers, thus the were Judeans or Jews. They were toted off by the Romans as Jews but they were all 12 tribes, and thus when they were brought back they were brought back as "Jews" who came from Judea, but they are the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel as God Himself stated.

When God states it, its a closed case.

iamsoandso · Jan 29, 2022

Rondonmon said:

Well, I am the one to unconfound your troubled soul. I do it by God's OWN WORDS to Ezekiel. If one wishes to deny this then God has to be lying.

Ezekiel 37:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest. 4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. 5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

So, God Himself told Ezekiel to Prophesy hat those He brought out of all the nations of the world were the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel.

This isn't even debatable, these are God's own words to the prophet Ezekiel.

So, where to you guys get off road?

There were never any lost tribes, every one of the 12 tribes had people (SEED) living in Jerusalem when the 10 tribes were toted off, thus there were never any lost tribes, that's a myth. But since they all lived in Judah they over time became known as Jews, just like Italians who moved to New York 50-100 years ago are ow knw as New Yorkers, thus the were Judeans or Jews. They were toted off by the Romans as Jews but they were all 12 tribes, and thus when they were brought back they were brought back as "Jews" who came from Judea, but they are the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel as God Himself stated.

When God states it, its a closed case.

So are you meaning that the verses your quoting from Ezekiel were fulfilled by them being brought back and then they were destroyed again in ad70 and toted off after the events of ad70?

CS1 · Jan 29, 2022

KrisWampler said:

it is the same as Israel in the Bible today. The Bible tells us they were perverted and idol worshipers.

Why is Isreal today the same as the one in the bible?

Jesus is coming back to the location known as Isreal
God said HE would restore Isreal and in 1948 God did just that.
Isreal is no worst than the United States, Canada, or Britain, just like many other countries.

The Bible tells us The same people who God called the Apple of HIS eye in the Old Testament are today the same people. IF they are not, Jesus would not need to come back to the mount of Olives where HE ascended as we were told HE would.

Rondonmon · Jan 29, 2022

iamsoandso said:

God never saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones in her 70 years of captivity in Babylon. Israel was supposed to repent, then when she didn't God placed 70 weeks more of judgments on her. Only when Israel rejected God in Flesh (Jesus) did God turn His back on Israel and give he mantle of the Gospel unto the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be come in (Rapture). Simply back up to Ezekiel 36 and then Ezekiel 37 makes sense.

Ezekiel 36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. 18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: 19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land. 21 But I had pity for mine holy name(Th God of Israel), which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean:(Thus is AFTER Israel repents as seen in Zechariah 13:8-9) from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. 32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. 33 Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. 36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it. 37 Thus saith the Lord God; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. 38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.

We are told about the 1848 Israel which no one wanted, nomads barley lived there, it was a waste land, God blessed it and made it into a beautiful place now.

Then when we see that Ezekiel 36 is speaking about the End Times, we understand Ezekiel 37 s about the 2000 some odd year Dead Men's Bones. Gid never saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones 2500 years ago.

Nehemiah6 · Jan 29, 2022

KrisWampler said:

"Counterfeit" is perhaps too strong a word for the modern secular nation-state of Israel. Non-biblical is correct. It is not really the UN which created Israel, but the British government of the time (with sufficient pressure and money from Lord Rothschild, an extremely wealthy and influential Jew). Palestine was a British Protectorate, and the Zionist Movement (late 19th to early 20th century) was geared to a homeland in Palestine for Jews from around the world. Anti-Semitism was the hallmark of Europe ever since the Jews were dispersed from Palestine, so this was in response to the persecution of Jews by Europeans.

Yes, there is no question that modern Israel rejects Christ, the secular government rejects Messiah (unlike Orthodox Jews in Israel who await their "Messiah"), and it is a hotbed of gay power and other wickedness. At the same time many Jews are being saved and believing on Yeshua ha Mashiach (Jesus the Christ).

On the other hand Jerusalem is in Israel, and it is Jerusalem to which Christ will come at His Second Coming. He will stand on the Mount of Olives, and that will split in two. So modern Israel has great prophetic significance. After the Second Coming of Christ, God will supernaturally gather Jews from all around the world and bring them to the land of Israel, and one-third of that number will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. So, in fact the nation of Israel (as well as Jerusalem) will be cleansed, redeemed and restored. Then God will give the 12 tribes of Jacob the land of "greater Israel" (from the Nile to the Euphrates). This area would be about 10 times the size of modern Israel. All of this is in Scripture and based upon the Abrahamic Covenant.

KrisWampler · Jan 29, 2022

CS1 said:

1, The location of Israel =/= the modern-day nation of Israel, nor is there any logical reason it would have to. America was called America long before a nation state was ever established here. If the United States government ceased to exist, this area would likely still be called America.
2. No, the godless United Nations established a nation state called Israel. They are not God. I already addressed this issue in the original post anyway.
3. Irrelevant.

Heaven_Bound · Jan 29, 2022

Many Modern Day Jews can trace our ancestry back to before 70 A.D. So the Lineage of the Ancient Jews still exist. And now, they are gathered in the same land mass they once were known for.

There are only a couple handfuls of Prophecy left to fulfill, and those prophecies surround the Land where the Modern Day Jew resides. So one way or another, when these Prophesies begin fulfilling, they will inter mingle with the current Modern Day Residents of Modern day Israel.

The fact that we know for certain where the 2nd Holy Temple once stood. And we can coordinate by Biblical description which directions it faced. We can coordinate how the ancient Nation was set up. So modern day or not, we know for certain, that the current State of Israel is in fact right where it is supposed to be.

And of course, having the Palestine's in the same general area, they have been for the past 3,000 years, is also a big help to know the Current State of Israel exists where the original Nation of Israel once existed.

JaumeJ · Jan 29, 2022

KrisWampler said:

Having spent six months in Israel, it was a very informative experience.

Yes, I was a bit excited having already read through the Word, Genesis to the Amen of Revaluation, several times. It was a big disappointment.

It in no manner resembled the Israel I knew from the Word. There were denominations of Israelis, or if you prefer, of Jews, just like the Christians.

The government bared no resemblance to that of the Israel in the Word. No High Priest running everything, no nothing.

Having witnessed this first-hand, I realized the Israel on our maps is but the stage for the final days, the Beast, and dthe Two Prophets. So in this regard I am a happy camper, very satisfied, and I thank out Father for sending me there.

All love and ble4ssings from me to you in Yeshua, amen.

Duckybill · Jan 29, 2022

The jealous Israel wannabe's are still trying to steal Israel's identity and blessings, bringing the curse on themselves and their families. Satan has been busy!

JaumeJ · Jan 29, 2022

Duckybill said:

He certainly has.

PennEd · Jan 29, 2022

Smells like replacement theology stuff.

The genesis of Christian anti-semitism.

pottersclay · Jan 29, 2022

God used pagan nations to scatter Israel as he prophesied.
So then he used a pagan organization to regather them. Just as he prophesied "in one day".
It was all done by the hand of the Lord.
To think this is a counterfeit Israel is insane.
Of course there is no high priest...there's no temple....yet.
Oh Israel has its troubles the same as the western world as the days grow darker, as her enemies approach the boarders. Redemption is near.

Rondonmon · Jan 29, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

This isn't even difficult to understand. People go and say what they want to say, regardless of the scripture.

iamsoandso · Jan 29, 2022

Rondonmon said:

God never saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones in her 70 years of captivity in Babylon. Israel was supposed to repent, then when she didn't God placed 70 weeks more of judgments on her. Only when Israel rejected God in Flesh (Jesus) did God turn His back on Israel and give he mantle of the Gospel unto the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be come in (Rapture). Simply back up to Ezekiel 36 and then Ezekiel 37 makes sense.

Ezekiel 36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. 18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: 19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land. 21 But I had pity for mine holy name(Th God of Israel), which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean:(Thus is AFTER Israel repents as seen in Zechariah 13:8-9) from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. 32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. 33 Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. 36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it. 37 Thus saith the Lord God; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. 38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.

We are told about the 1848 Israel which no one wanted, nomads barley lived there, it was a waste land, God blessed it and made it into a beautiful place now.

Then when we see that Ezekiel 36 is speaking about the End Times, we understand Ezekiel 37 s about the 2000 some odd year Dead Men's Bones. Gid never saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones 2500 years ago.

I suppose then it was in the way you worded your last paragraph in post #6 (your wording in it is past tense which makes it seem as if your seeing it fulfilled already).

Another question though,,, In Ezekiel 36 that your quoting several times God makes the statement that he was doing this because they profaned his Holy name. He words this several different ways in that he would have pity for his name, he was not doing this for their sake but for his Holy names sake.

In Daniel 9 17-19 Daniel is pointing out this in that the sanctuary was desolate for the Lords sake and that the city was called after his name and also the people were called after his name. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel 9&version=KJV

Here's the question though in Revelation 13:5-6 this beast blasphemes Gods name and his tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven do you see this as future tense or past? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 13&version=KJV

KrisWampler · Jan 29, 2022

PennEd said:

Honestly surprised it took this long for someone to call me an anti-Semite. You guys never bother to have actual arguments.

The modern nation of Israel is not the biblical nation of Israel

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