Who Justifieth the Ungodly

nope ... no "justification before faith !"

You quoted Romans 5:10 ... you do know that Romans 5:1 comes before Romans 5:10, yes?

God expects us to recall (keep in mind) what we read 9 verses prior to reading Romans 5:10:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

and God expects us to recall what we read just prior to Romans 5:1 ...


Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

No surmising its the truth that you dont receive.

So that means its being ignored what I e4xplained with scripture.

Again you are ignoring whats found in the context of scripture. Justification by grace freely through Christs redemptive death Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

I have given plenty scripture for Justification before God before Faith, you cant receive it.

I do not ignore what is written in Scripture.

your surmisings? I have exposed the error of your surmisings ... your surmisings do not hold up under the scrutiny of Scripture. you build your house on ground with no foundation.

brightfame52 said:

what I e4xplained with scripture.

Click to expand...

what you do, brightfame52, is pluck verses out of the context within which God, the Author of Scripture, has placed them ...

you then go off on a tangent in order to manipulate a verse to prop up whatever dogma you hold to ...

that is not proper exegesis. You know it ... I know it ... everyone reading this thread knows it ...

nope ... it's not me who's ripping Romans 3:24 out of its context.


context context context

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)

brightfame52 said:

Justification by grace freely through Christs redemptive death Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Click to expand...

You can't read Romans 3:24 within the context God has placed it. If you did, you would have to let go of the dogma you so desperately hold to ...


Romans 3:

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Why don't you just trust God? ... believe what God tells you in Romans 3:21-26???

Yes you ignore it all the time.

You denying now that which is in the context of scripture. What does Rom 3:24 say ?

Yes I have, you deny it.

Justified before Faith and why ! 2

All for whom Christ died are Justified before Faith because they have been perfected forever before Faith ! Even though work mongers and those who reject Salvation by Grace through Faith alone, or Justification by Grace alone apart from believing Faith. Its True nevertheless because all for whom Christ died, or by His Offering alone, have been made perfect before God, and so perfectly Righteous. Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Which is all whom He died for Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering[Death] of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14

14 For by a single offering He has forever completely cleansed and perfected those who are consecrated and made holy.AMP

14 By his one sacrifice he has forever set free from sin Justifed from the people he brings to God.CEV


Hebrews 10:14 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter
14 And by one gift He has made perfect forever all those who are being set apart for God-like living.

Now, this Perfection of Righteousness, Justification is something that naturally those Christ died for cannot see [it's invisible], nor feel, nor logically reason, its not known nor understood to any of the natural faculties or senses; The Knowledge of it comes by Faith and the Power of God.

Now it does not matter how many scriptures one can round up against this Truth, the Fact still remains, those that Christ hath died for, by that Death / Offering, hath been perfected forever! And this while they are yet sinners and ungodly in themselves by nature. 8

nope ... Scripture is clear that mankind is justified by faith:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

brightfame52 said:

Even though work mongers and those who reject Salvation by Grace through Faith

Click to expand...

you reject God's Word when you insist that faith = work. You have been shown many, many times that faith is not works ... yet you reject what is plainly written in Scripture and you hold to a dogma which is nothing but a wind of doctrine cunningly devised to deceive ...

Romans 4:

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

brightfame52 said:

Its True nevertheless because all for whom Christ died, or by His Offering alone, have been made perfect before God

Click to expand...

If your dogma was true, there would be no one cast into the lake of fire.


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world


John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned ...

brigthfame52 said:

Hebrews 10:14 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter
14 And by one gift He has made perfect forever all those who are being set apart for God-like living.

Click to expand...

You submitted 1 verse ... not "In Context" ... not "Whole Chapter" ... and there's a reason you rip verses out of context.

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)

brigthfame52 said:

it does not matter how many scriptures one can round up against this Truth

Click to expand...

you so silly ... if what you claim is "Truth", there would be no "scriptures one can round up against" it ...

align your dogma with Scripture ... do not try to align Scripture with your dogma ...


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

His death only justifies those who believe, right?

@brightfame52 The apostles did not say “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ because you are saved. They said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

He that believes is not condemned, but He that does not believe is condemned already.

Unbelievers are under the wrath of God until they believe. It’s called “passing from death to life”.

Justification before God is strictly by His Blood.

Justification before God is strictly by the Blood of Christ ! Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This scripture is crystal clear on Justification by the Blood of Christ, and yes this is before the Justified ones believe on Christ.

This Justification by blood is based solely on the redemption that is in His Blood Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

24 [All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,

The word freely in Rom 3:24 is the greek word dōrean and means:

I.freely, undeservedly

It also is translated and means:

for nought, without a cause.

So the Justification before God secured and applied to their accounts, is not based upon anything they did. If we make Faith/Believing a condition for it, we deny the Truth, as simple as that.

Its by the Redemption that is in His Blood, because attached with it is Forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7

7 In whom[By His Death] we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This is all according to God's Grace. Justification is the result of the forgiveness of sins too, which is the result of the redemptive blood payment [ransom] to the Law and Justice of God, for all whom He died.

Redemption therefore is Justification through the Blood of Christ. Redemption is what Christ accomplished for the offences of those He died, and Forgiveness, Justification have been applied to their account. Now it has not yet been applied sensibly to them until they receive the notion of it by God given Faith, but before Faith the factuality of it has been applied in the courtroom of Heaven ! 8

Yes because He only died for them that believe. Believing is the evidence that Christ died for an individual and Justified them !

You still denying Justification by the Grace of God alone apart from a persons faith. That by default tells me you condition Justification on what a person does over and above what God in Christ did.