what are your thoughts of Apostle Kathryn Krick

To this.

The text says that their money was their own to do with as they wished. They were judged unto death because they lied to the Holy Spirit - about the money. It seems to me at least that how we express ourselves to others is either prophetic and so is intentionally revealing of something that is otherwise hidden (the heart) or else is must be phonological in character so as to transport the essential meaning by linguistic means - even when the claim is not thus says the Lord. I have been around these prophetic characters my entire walk and can easily discern both their direction and their intentional meaning even when they don't expressly claim to be speaking for God in the character of a prophet. She will never be judged in that way because she cannot even assert that she is a prophet. In her testimony she actually says clearly that she couldn't even speak to crowds of people - so she was no teacher then - and neither can she be a prophetess unless she asserts the same meaning as Merriam. Either way she should go back to singing as Merriam sang or else step down when she claims to be an Apostle who like Paul was among the prophets and the teachers and was recognised by the setting aside by the Holy Spirit by teachers and prophets. Yet now she is a teacher and a lead pastor and an Apostle. Utter nonsense.

If I have abused Greek verbs then correct me with a Greek parse - not an insult. Why do you always resort to factious means?

Semantics. they are not even cognitive. Thank you. I can move on.

You always do, brother.

Let me ask you this. Can a Christian sin? Is it possible for a Christian to commit fornication? If not, why did Paul tell Christians not to in I Thessalonians 4 and warn them? Why did Paul tell the Corinthians not to keep company with that man in I Corinthians 5?

Can sin and the Holy Spirit dwell in the same person? Isn't sin worse than a demon? Demons are called 'unclean spirits.' You could be unclean in the Old Testament without sinning, even trying to obey God. For example God told the Israelites to increase, but not decrease, but the practical outworking of it required some temporary uncleanness. Someone had to bury their dead. Women have cycles.


This is about the line of logic that says, "If it isn't in the Bible, it can't happen."

No, but I noticed one of the commentators on the video commented on it trying to make it sound like it was a big deal. You seemed to be making a big deal out of it.

yes, a Christian sin.

Now I will ask you, Did the devil possess them to sin?

Possess who to sin when? The human heart is capable of wickedness. I do not believe demons are necessary for an individual to sin, but they might facilitate.

My point is if the reasoning for saying a Christian cannot be demonized is because the Holy Spirit and a demon cannot be in the same person, then why would the Holy Spirit and sin be able to be in the same person. The same reasoning could be used to say that all genuine Christians with the Holy Spirit are sinlessly perfect and can never sin. Is that the case?

So what does that prove as related to the point you were making? The Proverbs say the lot falls in the lap but the decision is of the Lord.

What did Paul say about the apostles?

I Corinthians 15
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Judas had hanged himself. In Acts 1, we see those considered for apostleship in the casting of lots had to be witnesses of the resurrection.

Of Judas it says.
Matthew 27
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

But twelve apostles-- excluding Paul, 'the twelve' saw him before Jesus appeared to Paul. Paul's own words exclude him from the twelve apostles.

There you go. a Christian who has been set free can sin where an unsaved person can't and does what THE FLESH DICTATES BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT BEEN SET FREE what does the word of God say? In the end that is what is authoritative not me or you:

Roman 6

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.


" Likewise Reckon" means count it to be so, because it is so.

we are stand in the liberty where Christ has made us free. We are to be no otherwise minded than that of Christ. The sin Christian does today is because they choose to do so. Using their liberty for an occasion to the flesh.

We are to see ourselves dead to sin and alive unto Christ.

Temptation is not a sin being a willful participant is. The devil will suggest we who are Christians have power and authority not to do it. I'm sure many Christians will ask " do you sin? " that is a false narrative to cover up willful disobedience that one has not had victory over. And most likely gave up. Now the devil is perceived to have more power than God's word to keep those who HE hAS CALLED BECAUSE one who says they know Jesus still sin. FYI the flesh is not saved. And if the devil possesses your heart you were never saved. The seed( the word of God ) that falls on ONLY GOOD GROUND Brought forth Fruit.

the rest did not receive fully the engrafted word of God
as James 1:21 says :

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. "

Jesus is the word of God and HE said HIS words are life.

you are speaking of possibilities not the word of God. Jesus said not me Light has no fellowship with darkness. Jesus also said that a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. You are using human reasoning and speculation to suggest that a Christian willfully sins can also be demon-possessed?
Unbiblical. I will ask you what I asked
Kathryn Krick
Please show me in the word of God where a person was passed by a demon and a Christian. Not influenced, tempted, oppressed, but
possessed by a demon. The sin that Christians do is willful

That is why James chapter 1 which is written to Christians not the unsaved said:

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

I do not see Demon mentioned.

16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. 18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

well then talk to them. I don't speak for them

actually you are the one making a big deal out of it. no one else in the thread even remarked on it

Maybe good example in the senses world would be.

Putin lining up at the border of Ukraine…as oppression. The influence and tension is there you can feel it in the atmosphere.

Taking occupancy of any portion therein would be.. possession.

Human reasoning? You are the one who cannot show me where the Bible says a Christian cannot be demonized, but wants to make a solid doctrine about what is problem. 'Demon possessed' comes KJV 'possessed of..." whatever... an unclean spirit or however those verses are worded. The word 'demonized' is taken from the Greek. Our -ize ending comes from Greek anyway. Some translations make it sound like the demon owns the person. And so some people come up with 'demon oppressed' as opposed to possessed. But the original language didn't have this 'possession' in the form of ownership.

Paul wrote light has no fellowship with darkness when he told believers not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. But is it possible for a believer to be unwise and disobey? Don't you think so? If a Christian marries an unbeliever, does that mean he or she was never a real Christian to begin with... or does that mean he or she made a mistake. John said if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. But what about people who go off into unrepentant unconfessed sin and get cut off from fellowship?

Here is the problem with all this real life. In real life, if you go into a 'deliverance ministry' scenario and the person voice gets all weird and they have difficulty saying the name of Jesus and say a demon torments him, but he believes in Jesus, confesses his faith in Jesus, his prayers seem sincere, he cares about Biblical things-- honoring his father, prayer, etc. He's been baptized. His faith seems genuine and if the weird stuff didn't happen and you didn't hear about him being demonized, you'd think he's a Christian. So what do you say? Do you tell him his faith was not genuine, that it didn't really take? Is his baptism invalid and needs to be repeated? Are you going to judge his salvation and say he is not a Christian?

When you are in one of these scenarios with someone who by all accounts is supposed to be a believer, who says 'No!' in a little bit deep voice when they tell the spirit to come out, do you say she is not a Christian. Do you have that right.

The problem is the variety of stuff that happens in real life, and the doctrine that says a believer cannot be demonized is based on some loose reasoning using scriptures that directly address the issue.

Show me your name in the Bible where it says you exist. Show me where it says automobiles will fly. "It's not in the Bible, so it cannot happen." is not a reasonable argument because we both know the Bible does not predict everything. There isn't a verse in the Bible that says that no Christian can be demonized.

Where are your categories in the Bible? I know it says that the Devil tempted Jesus. Does it say demons tempt people? Where in the Bible is 'demon oppressed.' I haven't found that. The translation said 'possessed' and that sounds like ownership. That's probably why so many Christians say that true Christians can't be demon-possessed, because it sounds like ownership.

The closest scripture I can think of to this is Satan filling Ananias heart. Either Satan got in that heart himself, or he put stuff in it. If the former, well that's pretty close to demonization except I do not know that Satan is the same class of spiritual entity that demons are in. The Shedim and sons of God may be different types of spirits in Deuteronomy 32 (using Dead Sea Scrolls which seems to align with the LXX for verse 8.)

I learned in Sunday school that you tell the demon to go in Jesus' name and it goes. We had this song, "In the name of Jesus... demons will have to flee...." So I thought they came out in a split second. A Christian author I know said that in the Christian tradition it may have to be repeated many times and referred to a grammatical form used in a passage where Christ cast out a demon. With the Gedarene demoniac, Jesus had told the spirit to come out before He found out that it was legion.

In real life things can be different from what 'experts' who do not know what they are talking about think. I do not claim to be an expert, but I saw a young woman saying 'no' in one of those scenarios and people who knew her told me she was a Christian, etc. I was an observer of a brief part of it, and this happened when I was quite young. I also realized from that and other experiences that exorcisms do not always happen in a split second.

I do not think Christians walking holy with God need to be scared of getting demonized out of the blue. But Jesus told his own disciples if each of them did not forgive their brother from their heart, that the same would happen to them... after telling them about the unforgiving servant being delivered over to the tormenters until he should pay the debt. If 'tormenters' means or includes demons, this may be a relevant passage.

There are also people who profess faith in Christ, get baptized, and start getting discipled who might go into some kind of sin. If they are doing witchcraft, divination, etc. or idolatry, I could see how those could be closely connected to demonic activity. If someone is under church discipline and has been delivered over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord, don't you think that that person might have some kind of problems with Satan?


How is that relevant to what I wrote? You are the one mentioning demons doing tempting. I suspect they do that, but I do not know of any scriptures that specify that demons tempt except passages Satan or 'the Devil'. Even if Satan is involved, lusts are involved also when one succumbs to a temptation.

But I see yet another verse that does not say a Christian cannot be demonized in some cases.

How do you think this addresses the issue? Does this mean Satan could not fill Ananias heart, or that a man in the church could not be delivered over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh?

I really like Romans 6. The question of where it is possible for a Christian to sin, and whether it is possible for a believer not to sin are two different things. Romans 6 shows us that a believer is not to sin. But there are plenty of rebukes in Paul's letters to show that there were people who sinned in those churches. I Corinthians deals with a fornicator. James also addresses sin, calls his readers adulterers and adultereresses, warning that friendship with the world is enmity with God. He warns about wages kept back by fraud and laborers crying out to the Lord. James 5 says of the one who calls for the elders 'and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him' and he tells 'the readers 'confess your faults one to another and pray one for another.'

Also, I am trying to read between the lines at some other comments. I do not think that demons and sin are the same thing. If someone commits a sin, I do not think a demon had to have necessarily specifically tempted them, or that the sin is a 'spirit of' whatever sin, meaning a demon for that particular sin. I suspect the Devil himself has some limitations and that there may be other demons who tempt as well. The Devil tempted Jesus to turn stones into bread, focusing on hunger, a human desire. So some of those those who did sin, unlike Christ, who yield to their desires could potentially have been tempted somehow by the Devil or devils in an area of their list.

seem to me you are making the devil and demons more greater than God. I provide from the word of God how Christians are set free and have the ability to sin willfully, and How Jesus is Lord which is Supreme. If you think a demon can possess a Christian then ask to show in the word of God where it says that they can't , you don't know the word of God. I'm done

You can do your best as Servant of God.
But don't expect others to do as well as you do.But you can remind others of their mistakes. Hint may be a good way.

I think we should treat others' behavior with tolerance,cuz love never fails.

I think I directed the question to you, but I don't think you answered. When you get into the deliverance session or before it, and the person seems to have sincere faith, confesses Jesus as Lord, cares about Biblical moral things, expresses love for God, but then 'manifests', what do you do with this doctrinal issue?

That's the real life issue here. So then you start thinking the person isn't saved, as if you can judge his salvation. Is that right?

Your giving me doctrine based on a bit of reasoning, and I was thinking 'human reasoning' before you posted the term... several steps away from what the verse says. I could use the same type of reasoning on the verses to say it is impossible for a Christian to sin, but then I see Paul confronting sin in the churches. He even rebuked Cephas.

I can also point to some not-too-explicit scriptures. The disciple of Jesus who does not forgive will be delivered to the tormenters. It doesn't say demons explicitly. Satan entered into Judas-- explicit, pre cross, not using the term demonized per se but something that sounds pretty close. Peter says that Satan filled Ananias heart. That seems ambiguous between Satan getting in his heart or putting stuff in there. Paul warns people of the church in Corinth against fellowship with demons through idolatry. He says to deliver one of their number over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.

I do not have an explicit verse that says a Christian can be demonized, but it does not seem unreasonable to infer it in some cases. You are working off of inferences, too. The problem is, which one corresponds to reality? What you do with the cases of people who seem to be demonized, who professed faith in Christ at some point were baptized, etc. who seem to be manifesting demons with whatever level of extreme occurrences going on. Do you declare them unsaved? We aren't talking hypothetical theology here. This is about reality.

I just decided to let the Pentecostal Sunday school dogmatic stances go because the exegetical basis for them was weak and it didn't seem to fit reality. The other alternative would be I'd be thinking he/she isn't saved, maybe wanting them to get rebaptized, and lead them possibly not to properly the previous work of God in their life. My previous position might encourage me to cause damage to them if I were wrong.

The struggle with 'how I interpret the Bible' and the reality of working it out goes into other areas. Some people have an understanding of scripture that this person should be healed right now because I laid hands on him. But what if it doesn't happen? Or what if it has happened on occasion, maybe many times, but not now?

What about answered prayer? I've prayed for something incredibly specific to happen in two minutes, set my stop watch, and seen it answered. I've prayed a ~7-part specific prayer request and seen 5 points answered in a few dayss and the rest in a month or two, so specific I was amazed at it, even though I'd prayed and had faith at the time I argued my case before the Lord. I've seen other specific prayer requests. But I've prayed for other stuff, and it drags out for years and years. I can even ask for 'now' in the prayer. But it doesn't always happen. So what is the deal with that?

The problem is there is some factor I probably do not see, some aspect of this that may be mentioned in scripture but I didn't get it, or weight it properly. Maybe there is something in my own motives for some prayers or something about the will of God that I do not know, or maybe I thought I had faith for it and didn't, or just didn't know if I had faith in God for what I was asking and didn't think about it.

There is a bit of mystery to all this. Loose arguments using a lot of scripture do not always align with reality. Our _understanding_ of scripture may not take everything into account.

Because you have written such a long post I will answer it out of respect to you. I do not want to be rude or taken as such so bear with me.


"When you get into the deliverance session or before it, and the person seems to have sincere faith, confesses Jesus as Lord, cares about Biblical moral things, expresses love for God, but then 'manifests', what do you do with this doctrinal issue?"

you have a presupposition of one who appears to be to you to have a sincere faith and confession of Jesus as Lord and A MORAL PERSPECTIVE.

1. I do not do deliverance sessions.
2. Discernment is needed for all who profess to be Christians
3. The word of God is truth and a double-edged sword that cuts right to the heart of the issue.
4. speaking Christianese and having a form of godliness yet denying the power thereof is Deception
5. God is not fooled by false confessions as Jesus says " I never knew you"

A demon manifesting vs staged event are two different things. One must have discernment when unsure pray and turn to the Word of God. The catch-all term any use is " you are judging", not I am not, it's called discerning.
IF a person tells you all the right things in context to being a Christian does that mean we take their word or should we expect fruit?

In addition, you have not taken into consideration the perceived authority this woman has in what she says to a weak person by suggesting a saved person as a demon? The flesh excepted the suggestion and went along with it because this woman said it was so.

it is not that she is demon-possessed, but agreed with what was said to her and led to foolishness. What is the difference from
this woman rolling around on the ground over one barking like a dog?

Nothing is flesh and foolishness. Yet as a Pentacostel preacher I get hate for praying in tongues which many say is not for today BUT think this video is a real demonic position LOL haha haha.

Oh my Lord.