OSAS, the "evil" doctrine.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,426
113
#21
However, once someone is saved by God and not of themselves, they are eternally irrevocably saved.

So you are correct. The naysayers as relates to the Gospel of Eternal Life , who encapsulate their argument as OSAS, are not saying what scripture says or means.
A teen who is "irrevocably" saved as a teen but becomes a thief and a murder has relinquished his salvation.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,869
6,391
113
#22
A teen who is "irrevocably" saved as a teen but becomes a thief and a murder has relinquished his salvation.
unless they repent and turn back to Jesus, yes, that is true.

" if you confess your sin, He is faithful and just to forgive your sin".

no confession, no forgivness.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
9,376
5,057
113
#23
If OSAS teaches that it is OK for Christians to live as if Christ is not in their hearts so they follow Him, then it is not of God. If they are teaching that once you have Christ in your hearts you do not have to listen to Christ, it is against scripture.

Scripture does not back the idea that we are unable to turn away from God once we belong to Him.

Hebrew 10:27 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
Can a heart become uncircumcised after it has been circumcised?

unless they repent and turn back to Jesus, yes, that is true.

" if you confess your sin, He is faithful and just to forgive your sin".

no confession, no forgivness.
Is salvation a gift, or a wage?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,869
6,391
113
#24
Can a heart become uncircumcised after it has been circumcised?

Is salvation a gift, or a wage?

salvation is a gift. but, if you give me a $100 gift card, i can give it back to you unused.

salvation is by faith alone, but it does not cancel free will. freely i chose Christ, freely i can un-chose.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
9,376
5,057
113
#25
salvation is a gift. but, if you give me a $100 gift card, i can give it back to you unused.
Not if you believe it. If you believe it, you accept it. If you return it, you don't "believe" it.

salvation is by faith alone, but it does not cancel free will. freely i chose Christ, freely i can un-chose.
The Father chooses us, we do not choose Him.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,670
13,073
113
#26
Wolves hunt in packs.
And wolf hunters hunt wolves.

The eternal security of the believer is an in integral part of salvation. And there are just too many Scriptures which support this truth. Also there are too many threads which go on and on about OSAS, and how a person can lose their salvation.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#27
John 17:9-12
"I ask on their behalf. I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those You have given Me; for they are Yours. All I have is Yours, and all You have is Mine; and in them I have been glorified. I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to You.

Holy Father, protect them by Your name, the name You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one. While I was with them, I protected and preserved them by Your name, the name You gave Me. Not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. "

You think maybe God heard and answered Jesus' prayer? I do.

1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us."

1 Corinthians 5:1 & 2
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is intolerable even among pagans: A man has his father’s wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have been stricken with grief and have removed from your fellowship the man who did this?

1 Corinthians 5: 9-11
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people. I was not including the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

2 Corinthians 2: 5-8
Now if anyone has caused grief, he has not grieved me but all of you—to some degree, not to overstate it. The punishment imposed on him by the majority is sufficient for him. So instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him.
How in the world would one come to the conclusion that eternal security is "evil" from any verse, not just the ones posted here?

Jesus made eternal security crystal clear in two verses:

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

In this verse, the one who believes HAS ETERNAL LIFE. This is a present tense verb. WHEN one believes they POSSESS eternal life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

This verse teaches who gives the gift of eternal life (Jesus Himself). And the result of being given the gift: they shall NEVER PERISH.

So, the argument that one must "continuously" believe in order to be "continuously" saved is simply an abuse of the Greek present tense.

John 10:28 isn't about believing here, though one MUST believe in order to receive eternal life, for sure.

The issue in 10:28 is the RESULT of being GIVEN the gift.

Those who have been given the gift SHALL NEVER PERISH.

That is Jesus' message to us.

So, those who claim eternal security is "evil" are evil.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,426
113
#28
Those who have been given the gift SHALL NEVER PERISH.

That is Jesus' message to us.

So, those who claim eternal security is "evil" are evil.
One of the gifts that we are given is the ability o choose what we believe. God does not take that gift away from us because we once chose to be saved and now choose not to be saved. We are allowed to choose today regardless of what we chose yesterday.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,372
6,637
113
#30
OSAS is not "evil doctrine." That's silly. Misguided? Yes. But certainly not evil.

Once SANCTIFIED always SANCTIFIED is what they should be teaching. But, I suppose to admit now that they should would not be so easy since they have untold number of years and an entire Denominaiton hung up on "saved" rather than "sanctified."

Oh well. One day The Lord Himself will clue them in. :)
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,426
113
#31
Do you really believe such nonsense?
If I believed that God would take away my right to choose my own way I would be talking against what scripture tells us and that is nonsense. It is nonsense to say we are but robots, not human.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,372
6,637
113
#32
FREE WILL is Gods great Gift to mankind........sadly, many, many misuse that Gift.

oh well, one day the "separating of wheat from the tares" will come to be
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
9,376
5,057
113
#33
If I believed that God would take away my right to choose my own way I would be talking against what scripture tells us and that is nonsense. It is nonsense to say we are but robots, not human.
Would you let your child harm himself? Or would you spank him on the bottom and tell him not to be naughty?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,268
6,555
113
#34
Even our heavenly Father will chastise those whom He loves.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,084
2,581
113
London
christianchat.com
#35
If OSAS teaches that it is OK for Christians to live as if Christ is not in their hearts so they follow Him, then it is not of God. If they are teaching that once you have Christ in your hearts you do not have to listen to Christ, it is against scripture.

Scripture does not back the idea that we are unable to turn away from God once we belong to Him.

Hebrew 10:27 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
They received the knowledge of the truth but were not saved, salvation is from sin ... these go on sinning
They knew the way of righteousness but turned back from the holy commandment ... the commandment is to repent and believe.

They remained as dogs and sows.

..."no longer remains a sacrifice for sin" ... of course, the temple and it's sacrifices were gone with the old priesthood and they reject the one true sacrifice of the cross.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#36
Even our heavenly Father will chastise those whom He loves.
Yep. Heb 12:11 - No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.