Do we really go to heaven or hell after we die? Not immediately, at least!

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Feb 24, 2022
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#1
It is a common belief that righteous people go to heaven and the wicked go to hell, not just in Christianity, but in Judaism and Islam as well, also widely accepted among many atheists under the christian influence. But is that really taught in the bible? Doesn't look like that when it's scrutinized through biblical lens. Here's a brief summary to clear out the confusion:

- First of all, there're one temporary depository and two eternal destinations. The temporary one is known as Sheol in the OT and Hades in the NT, commonly referred to as "hell". Here, Sheol is not the capital of South Korea, but "grave" or "dark pit" in Hebrew; Hades is the evil brother of Zeus in Greek mythology, the lord of the underworld. Two eternal ones are the New Jerusalem and the Lake of Fire.

- Hades is the dwelling place for all dead people, both the righteous and the wicked, both the saved and the unsaved. They're not necessarily being tormented down there, but certainly not sleeping either. In the 5th Seal, the saints who died in the Tribulation are crying out for justice.

- Jesus personally went down to Hades for two days and rose on the third day. This is prophesied in Psalm 16:10, also quoted by Peter in Acts 2:27 - "For You will not leave my soul in Sheol (Hades), Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption." By Jesus's own testimony (Rev. 1:18), He died an earthly death, and there was a mission for Him in Hades.

- And what that mission was? To set His chosen people free from Hades, for He holds the keys to Hades and Death (Rev. 1:18)! That's a reassurance of resurrection. He also holds the key of David, which is a symbol of His ownership over the Heavenly Kingdom, where He has the authority to decide who has access and who doesn't. This is told in Rev. 3:7-8 to the Philadelphia church.

- All His faithful followers who were chosen will be resurrected on the Day of the Lord when He returns, they will reign with Christ in the final millennial kingdom for a thousand years, that's the "kingdom of heaven" or "kingdom of God" in Jesus's kingdom parables; New Jerusalem comes after that. The wicked, though, will remain in Hades until the 1000 years are over (Rev. 20:4-6). The mass resurrection of saints on the crucifixion day recorded in Matthew was a brief preview.

- The worst translation in KJV is probably naming the third person of the trinity as "Holy Ghost" instead of Holy Spirit. In almost every culture, a "ghost" is the disembodied soul of a dead person, floating in the air and wandering around, and it can communicate with the living through some dream or vision. In the gospels, when Jesus was walking on water, Peter thought he saw a ghost; and when resurrected Jesus appeared to the disciples, Thomas though he saw a ghost. That's not the correct view. Believers will received a glorified, sinless and incorruptible body in the heavenly kingdom, they will be resurrected in the same way that Jesus was resurrected.

- The Antichrist and the False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire BEFORE the millennial kingdom. After that, the wicked ones whose names are not written on the Book of Life will receive the white throne judgement according to their works, and they will be cast into the Lake of Fire, along with Satan and Hades. That's the Second Death (Rev. 20:11-15). You've probably heard the teaching, that the righteous "live twice, die once", the wicked "live once, die twice." Rev. 20:10 says there will be eternal torment in the Lake of Fire, while some believe that it's annihilation, everyone goes in there just ceases to exist anymore.

So there's all I have gleaned from the Bible about afterlife. I hope every key component is encapsulated. One thing I still don't quite understand, though, is Jesus's promise to the thief crucified next to Him: "TODAY you'll be with me in PARADISE." However, Jesus didn't ascend to heaven on that day, He was buried, resurrected and then He lingered on earth for 40 days. Also, the word "paradise" literally means "garden", which refers to the New Jerusalem as a Restored Garden of Eden, the new heaven and the new earth. But wait, if that's the case, isn't there a church age and a millennial kingdom in between? So in my understanding, what Jesus possible meant is that on that day He signed the thief's name on the Book of Life, the thief is granted access to enter New Jerusalem when that promise is due. Maybe you guys know something better about that, I'd like to hear it.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,886
4,537
113
#2
It is a common belief that righteous people go to heaven and the wicked go to hell, not just in Christianity, but in Judaism and Islam as well, also widely accepted among many atheists under the christian influence. But is that really taught in the bible? Doesn't look like that when it's scrutinized through biblical lens. Here's a brief summary to clear out the confusion:

- First of all, there're one temporary depository and two eternal destinations. The temporary one is known as Sheol in the OT and Hades in the NT, commonly referred to as "hell". Here, Sheol is not the capital of South Korea, but "grave" or "dark pit" in Hebrew; Hades is the evil brother of Zeus in Greek mythology, the lord of the underworld. Two eternal ones are the New Jerusalem and the Lake of Fire.

- Hades is the dwelling place for all dead people, both the righteous and the wicked, both the saved and the unsaved. They're not necessarily being tormented down there, but certainly not sleeping either. In the 5th Seal, the saints who died in the Tribulation are crying out for justice.

- Jesus personally went down to Hades for two days and rose on the third day. This is prophesied in Psalm 16:10, also quoted by Peter in Acts 2:27 - "For You will not leave my soul in Sheol (Hades), Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption." By Jesus's own testimony (Rev. 1:18), He died an earthly death, and there was a mission for Him in Hades.

- And what that mission was? To set His chosen people free from Hades, for He holds the keys to Hades and Death (Rev. 1:18)! That's a reassurance of resurrection. He also holds the key of David, which is a symbol of His ownership over the Heavenly Kingdom, where He has the authority to decide who has access and who doesn't. This is told in Rev. 3:7-8 to the Philadelphia church.

- All His faithful followers who were chosen will be resurrected on the Day of the Lord when He returns, they will reign with Christ in the final millennial kingdom for a thousand years, that's the "kingdom of heaven" or "kingdom of God" in Jesus's kingdom parables; New Jerusalem comes after that. The wicked, though, will remain in Hades until the 1000 years are over (Rev. 20:4-6). The mass resurrection of saints on the crucifixion day recorded in Matthew was a brief preview.

- The worst translation in KJV is probably naming the third person of the trinity as "Holy Ghost" instead of Holy Spirit. In almost every culture, a "ghost" is the disembodied soul of a dead person, floating in the air and wandering around, and it can communicate with the living through some dream or vision. In the gospels, when Jesus was walking on water, Peter thought he saw a ghost; and when resurrected Jesus appeared to the disciples, Thomas though he saw a ghost. That's not the correct view. Believers will received a glorified, sinless and incorruptible body in the heavenly kingdom, they will be resurrected in the same way that Jesus was resurrected.

- The Antichrist and the False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire BEFORE the millennial kingdom. After that, the wicked ones whose names are not written on the Book of Life will receive the white throne judgement according to their works, and they will be cast into the Lake of Fire, along with Satan and Hades. That's the Second Death (Rev. 20:11-15). You've probably heard the teaching, that the righteous "live twice, die once", the wicked "live once, die twice." Rev. 20:10 says there will be eternal torment in the Lake of Fire, while some believe that it's annihilation, everyone goes in there just ceases to exist anymore.

So there's all I have gleaned from the Bible about afterlife. I hope every key component is encapsulated. One thing I still don't quite understand, though, is Jesus's promise to the thief crucified next to Him: "TODAY you'll be with me in PARADISE." However, Jesus didn't ascend to heaven on that day, He was buried, resurrected and then He lingered on earth for 40 days. Also, the word "paradise" literally means "garden", which refers to the New Jerusalem as a Restored Garden of Eden, the new heaven and the new earth. But wait, if that's the case, isn't there a church age and a millennial kingdom in between? So in my understanding, what Jesus possible meant is that on that day He signed the thief's name on the Book of Life, the thief is granted access to enter New Jerusalem when that promise is due. Maybe you guys know something better about that, I'd like to hear it.
So there's all I have gleaned from the Bible about afterlife. I hope every key component is encapsulated. One thing I still don't quite understand, though, is Jesus's promise to the thief crucified next to Him: "TODAY you'll be with me in PARADISE." However, Jesus didn't ascend to heaven on that day, He was buried, resurrected and then He lingered on earth for 40 days.
Remember Jesus is of the Trinity. To be away from the body is to be with the Lord. There is a current Heaven that in the beginning a rebellion took place. This current Heaven is where the soul without the resurrected body resides with God in His 3 manifestations.

Philippians 1:23 ESV
I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

2 Corinthians 5:8 ESV
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Also, the word "paradise" literally means "garden", which refers to the New Jerusalem as a Restored Garden of Eden, the new heaven and the new earth.
Paradise is used in different ways. One of a garden and another as a heavenly place.


2 Corinthians 12:1-4
New International Version


12 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.


But wait, if that's the case, isn't there a church age and a millennial kingdom in between?
It is simply a current Heaven that is like a paradise during the dispensation of the ages leading up to the day where the current Earth, current Heaven, and Earthly Jerusalem is destroyed.

For a new to be brought forth, there must be an old.

So in my understanding, what Jesus possible meant is that on that day He signed the thief's name on the Book of Life, the thief is granted access to enter New Jerusalem when that promise is due. Maybe you guys know something better about that, I'd like to hear it.
His name was definitely signed to the Book of Life which is important for future events as well as his admission into Heaven.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
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#3
It is a common belief that righteous people go to heaven and the wicked go to hell, not just in Christianity, but in Judaism and Islam as well, also widely accepted among many atheists under the christian influence. But is that really taught in the bible? Doesn't look like that when it's scrutinized through biblical lens.
Really. Is that a "biblical" lens or is it a heretical lens? The Bibles is crystal clear that the saved go to Heaven to be with Christ the moment they die, while the unsaved go to Hades (not eternal Hell, which is the Lake of Fire). Purgatory is a fiction. So kindly stop spreading misinformation, disinformation, and spiritual confusion.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,742
6,912
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#4
I'm sure it is entertaining to speculate and debate the question in the OP Title.

However, ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE PASSED ON KNOW FOR SURE.

Well, them and The Lord God of course.

Still, enjoy yourselves. OR, you could get busy working for the Kingdom! Have none of you any "calling?"
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,886
4,537
113
#5
I'm sure it is entertaining to speculate and debate the question in the OP Title.

However, ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE PASSED ON KNOW FOR SURE.

Well, them and The Lord God of course.

Still, enjoy yourselves. OR, you could get busy working for the Kingdom! Have none of you any "calling?"
My calling is to write what is given to me. I was forced and humbled to this position as I never had much need to read and write in my personal time until through pain I found strength.

The Bible is clear and you do not have to wait to be dead to know this issue.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,040
1,796
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#6
@Carry_Your_Name

I would be glad to discuss this with you further. Send me a PM and we can have a conversation. There are things you are seeing that are correct.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,106
30,237
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#7
Hades is the dwelling place for all dead people, both the righteous and the wicked, both the saved and the unsaved. ... One thing I still don't quite understand, though, is Jesus's promise to the thief crucified next to Him: "TODAY you'll be with me in PARADISE." However, Jesus didn't ascend to heaven on that day, He was buried, resurrected and then He lingered on earth for 40 days.
Paradise is the sunny side of Sheol/Hades :)


PS~ as believers, we are in Christ right now...
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#8
One thing I still don't quite understand, though, is Jesus's promise to the thief crucified next to Him: "TODAY you'll be with me in PARADISE." However, Jesus didn't ascend to heaven on that day, He was buried, resurrected and then He lingered on earth for 40 days. Also, the word "paradise" literally means "garden",
s

Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Now read this And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou (or thou shalt) be with me in paradise.

Paradise is anyplace here on earth, it is not in the celestial heavens. What Jesus as saying was in line with everything He spoke about regarding the day of the Lord and setting up His kingdom. That.... they would be with him in paradise….Not today because He was dead for the next 72 hours ….but in the future.

“Verily I say unto you” “I say unto you today” were a common idiom used in biblical times.

All punctuation, caps, title headings, verses and chapters were added by translators…..and are devoid of authority, NGB (Not God Breathed).

There are many punctuational errors and chapter division throughout the Word. Just look at chapter 1 of Genesis. The first three verses of chapter 2 belong at the end of chapter 1.

Punctuation (commas) got Paul out of trouble when he wanted to go to Jerusalem, and yet God was telling him 3 different times... “Don’t go”. Acts 21:14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, the will of the Lord be done. The will of the Lord was “Don’t go”, but by adding the commas it makes it look like going was the Lords will. Remove the second and 3rd comma and it reads

14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased saying the will of the Lord be done.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#9
But is that really taught in the bible?
The overwhelming accepted belief is… that when one dies, they go directly to heaven or what is commonly referred to as hell this…. according to the Bible, (which is our standard for truth) is not accurate….. if the Word of God is correct.

Additionally …. places such as Abraham’s bosom, purgatory, or the waiting room are taught to be a rest area or holding cell before the deceased can ascend to meet Jesus…..none of this is biblical.

The Bible categorically states that when one dies, they are dead…. asleep (metaphorically) until the return of Christ.

Their spirit (if born again) returns to God, their soul which is simply breathe life… ceases, and the body goes into a state of decay …. back to dust. That is the biblical truth.

Death is awful…. it sucks. It is one…. if not the most devastating things that those living, deal with. The sorrow, the pain, the emptiness of loosing someone hurts horribly. I am not trying to devalue those feelings ….I have had my share also.

It is because of the sting of death that we have come up with different beliefs to comfort or minimize the loss. One of the most common being …..If we do go immediately to heaven…. then death is not an enemy as the Bible describes.... but a welcome friend….Sure….. if we are going to be immediately with Jesus it should be something we celebrate, not mourn.

But death is an enemy …the last enemy to be destroyed.

*I know there are a couple of areas which Paul references that give the appearance of being zapped up immediately....there is a context to to those verses.

What about he double hocky sticks . …………Through religion and its deception and fear motivation we have adapted the meaning, which the Greeks have put upon this word, and we have been synonymous in our definition with sheol, hades, gehenna, katakaio, and tartaros ....as that of eternal torment. Those are the words used that have been translated into our one English word for hell.....they are not the same.

The word hades from the Greek was used as a counterpart to the Hebrew word sheol and is more accurately defined as a state rather then a place.
Gravedom is a word coined by Bullinger…. and is a great word for hell..... it is the state or the reign of being in the grave. I am not talking about the grave itself, which employs the Greek word (qeber). I am speaking of the time when one takes his last breath, until the return of our savior Jesus Christ.

The Old Testament is the fountain-head of the Hebrew language. It has no literature behind it. But the case is entirely different with the Greek language. The Hebrew word Sheol is divine in its origin and usage. The Greek Hades is human in its nature and come down laden with centuries of development, in which it has acquired new senses, meaning and usages.”

Nowhere in the Old Testament is the abode of the dead regarded as a place of punishment or torment. The concept of an infernal “hell” developed in Israel only during the Hellenistic period.

We must disregard the meaning that is placed on the word hell today. The Bibles’ definition is..... “the state of being when one dies" it’s a continuing state until the resurrection.” That’s it ….it is that simple, and that defined in the Bible.

There is an end in which those... whose name is not in the book of life.... where they are toasted (annihilated) ...but not a burning forever.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,242
1,639
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Midwest
#10
op: heaven or hell when dead?:
Yes, Very Simple Bible Truth!:

1) JESUS Explained the UNbelievers' "conscious
torment of hellFire" Plainly and Clearly:

Luk_16:23-25 "the rich man - dead and buried!" (v 22):

"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar
off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have
mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water,
and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son,
remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise
Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."

2) JESUS Revealed To Paul Very Plainly And Clearly about:

believers' "Departure (in death) To Heaven":

2 Cor_ 5:6-8 "Departure to Be With CHRIST!":

"Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at
home in the body, we are absent from The LORD: ( For we walk by
faith, not by sight: ) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to
be absent from the body, and to Be Present With The LORD."

Phil_1:21-23 Same as above!:

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live
in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall
choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having
a desire to depart, and to Be With CHRIST; which is far better:"

3) Simply ALWAYS believe The Word Of Truth! Amen?

GRACE And Peace...
 
Jan 5, 2022
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"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#11
Really. Is that a "biblical" lens or is it a heretical lens? The Bibles is crystal clear that the saved go to Heaven to be with Christ the moment they die, while the unsaved go to Hades (not eternal Hell, which is the Lake of Fire). Purgatory is a fiction. So kindly stop spreading misinformation, disinformation, and spiritual confusion.
Well, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" for the Christian. WHERE is that exactly? I'm not sure. Our final destination will be the New Jerusalem. I'm not sure that's the same thing as the current Heaven, where Jesus sits at God's right hand waiting for all things to be put under His feet. And it's possible that upon death the saint will be transported to some other event first. For example, the Millennial Kingdom, where the saints will rule the Earth with Christ. So I'm not sure it's entirely clear cut.

Prior to Christ's death on the Cross, it seems there was a place called "Abraham's bosom" where the faithful resided until Christ's Atonement, at which point they could be brought into the presence of God. According to this view, this is what the Bible means when Christ brought captivity captive. He was taking those saints in Abraham's Bosom up to heaven with Him.

It is confusing because of the different languages involved in Bible manuscripts and the different pagan connotations that are already associated with some of those words.

It seems that the unbelievers don't go directly to the Lake of Fire either. "It is appointed unto man once to die, after this the judgment." The Great White Throne Judgment of all unbelievers. Those who end up there are already damned. The Judgment just makes it official. There may be degrees of Hell based on levels of wickedness during life. Not sure about this.

Prior to the Great White Throne Judgment, where are the souls of the damned? Well, there is actually a lot of "paranormal" activity here on Earth. Whether this is the deception of demonic forces or whether lost souls do actually wander awaiting the Judgment, I cannot say with certainty.

The Bible isn't 100% clear on all of this, I don't think. One is taught certain cookie-cutter views in church and Sunday school, but I'm trying to understand these things for myself from the Scriptures.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#12
Well, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" for the Christian. WHERE is that exactly? I'm not sure.
Why aren't you sure? where is the Lord Jesus Christ right now? See Acts 7 & 8.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#13
Really. Is that a "biblical" lens or is it a heretical lens? The Bibles is crystal clear that the saved go to Heaven to be with Christ the moment they die, while the unsaved go to Hades (not eternal Hell, which is the Lake of Fire). Purgatory is a fiction. So kindly stop spreading misinformation, disinformation, and spiritual confusion.
I’ve never said that Hades is the same as purgatory, never is it implied anywhere in the Bible when the term “Hades” is used. That’s just where souls are collected temporarily. If only the unsaved go to Hades then why did Jesus go there?
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#15
Nowhere in the Old Testament is the abode of the dead regarded as a place of punishment or torment. The concept of an infernal “hell” developed in Israel only during the Hellenistic period.

We must disregard the meaning that is placed on the word hell today. The Bibles’ definition is..... “the state of being when one dies" it’s a continuing state until the resurrection.” That’s it ….it is that simple, and that defined in the Bible.

There is an end in which those... whose name is not in the book of life.... where they are toasted (annihilated) ...but not a burning forever.
However that "state" is both described as a place and personified as a figure - Hades, following Death the fourth horseman, commonly depicted as a Grim Reaper. There're two eternal destinations - eternal separation from God in the Lake of fire, eternal union with God in New Jerusalem, that's when the millennial kingdom is over; but until then, that's the TEMPORARY abode of the dead as you said.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
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#16
That’s just where souls are collected temporarily. If only the unsaved go to Hades then why did Jesus go there?
You are speaking about what happened immediately after the death of Christ, which is not the answer to the question in the title "Do we really go to heaven or hell after we die?"

Getting back to why did Jesus go to Hades (or Sheol/Hades) while His body lay in the the tomb for three days and three nights, there are several reasons: (1) He went to "preach" (or proclaim) His victory on the cross to all the spirits which were in prison in Hades; (2) He went to destroy the power of Hades, and the metaphorical (or real) "gates of Hades" by removing all the OT saints from Hades to Heaven, when He rose from the dead; and (3) He used the metaphorical "key" to Hades by releasing the saints who were virtually prisoners in Sheol/Hades until His resurrection. Thus they would be perfected in Heaven.

Ever since the resurrection of Christ no saint or child of God goes to Hades. Every saint (soul and spirit) goes directly to Heaven to be with Christ, who is indeed in Heaven. You can start with the death of Stephen in Acts 7 & 8. Therefore Paul says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

All the saints (OT & NT) who have passed on are presently in the New Jerusalem in Heaven (Heb 12:22-24) and Paradise is indeed in the New Jerusalem. At the future Resurrection/Rapture, Christ will bring these saints with Him so that they may receive their immortal, glorified bodies, and then return to Heaven (along with the raptured saints).
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#17
Paradise is anyplace here on earth, it is not in the celestial heavens. What Jesus as saying was in line with everything He spoke about regarding the day of the Lord and setting up His kingdom. That.... they would be with him in paradise….Not today because He was dead for the next 72 hours ….but in the future.
No, not really. I has to be a celestial garden. You know, when Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene in John 20, she mistook him as a gardener ... but did she? This assumption didn't come up randomly, it was a profound prophetic statement. Just as Adam being the gardener of the original Eden, Jesus is the gardener of the Restored Eden, which is New Jerusalem, and that completes the cycle. There's a parallel.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#18
You are speaking about what happened immediately after the death of Christ, which is not the answer to the question in the title "Do we really go to heaven or hell after we die?"
This title is pointing at the common misconceptions of HEAVEN and HELL, that New Jerusalem is heaven and it's already there, and Saint Peter is sitting at a checkpoint in front of the pearly gate, while hell is the same as the Lake of Fire, an infernal pit burning forever and ever. That's not what the bible says, based on Rev. 20.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
678
420
63
#19
No, not really. I has to be a celestial garden. You know, when Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene in John 20, she mistook him as a gardener ... but did she? This assumption didn't come up randomly, it was a profound prophetic statement. Just as Adam being the gardener of the original Eden, Jesus is the gardener of the Restored Eden, which is New Jerusalem, and that completes the cycle. There's a parallel.
Maybe prophetic ....I don't know.
It wasn't random as there was good reason for Mary to think that.

Jhn 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
Jhn 19:42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
 
Jan 5, 2022
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"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#20
Why aren't you sure? where is the Lord Jesus Christ right now? See Acts 7 & 8.
Here's the thing. God is outside of TIME. Yes, when the believer dies they go to be with the Lord. But WHERE is that and WHEN is that? A temporal jump in time could be a possibility. Which is why I mentioned the possibility that we could just end up at the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom with Christ.

Or, in the view of the unimaginative, we could go to WHEREever God is RIGHT NOW and have to wait for history to finish up before the next big event of importance. Don't know. I'm not sure the Bible says definitively. A topic of research on my list.