Moral Courage or Foolishness? Ukraine.

Putin is not in charge in the Ukraine situation. But how far should NATO go? We don't want WW3, but it may be inevitable at some point in history. Can we speed this along, or must it happen only in God's time? Should we be afraid of precipitating WW3, or being that it is in God's domain, should we just do the right thing regardless? No Fly zone? Active military participation in Ukraine. Secret military involvement?

Putin is not in charge? Show me the chapter and verse.

Do you know what a conscription is?

In case you don't understand it's slavery. A very low wage form of slavery. That's going to be the result of Russia controlling Ukraine. The remaining citizens become slaves to the nation of Russia. They are going to be paid a fraction of the wages they once earned and put back to work...if they are allowed to have a job.
No safety protocols, no rewards for doing a better job...they are conscripted.
They might be made to do anything that is menial labor without hope of getting a better job. No rising up to management for doing a good job. No better wages ever. No hope.

Now if it was you being conscripted...what would you like done to the oppressors?

This would fit better in the News forum.

You do not believe God is in charge? Are you a liberal? A Christian?

John 9.33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”

Job 1.9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

Gen 20.6 Then God said to him in the dream, “Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience, and so I have kept you from sinning against me. That is why I did not let you touch her. "

Above, you will see someone in a superior position to an individual or small group, and yet could do nothing without God's permission. Beyond this, many biblical prophecies determine precisely when God allows judgment to come.

John 7.30 At this they tried to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him, because his hour had not yet come.

2 Kings 19.5 When King Hezekiah’s officials came to Isaiah, 6 Isaiah said to them, “Tell your master, ‘This is what the Lord says: Do not be afraid of what you have heard—those words with which the underlings of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me. 7 Listen! When he hears a certain report, I will make him want to return to his own country, and there I will have him cut down with the sword.’”

Deut 10.10 Now I had stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights, as I did the first time, and the Lord listened to me at this time also. It was not his will to destroy you.

2 Kings 20.17 The time will surely come when everything in your palace, and all that your predecessors have stored up until this day, will be carried off to Babylon. Nothing will be left, says the Lord.

2 Chron 35.21 But Necho sent messengers to him, saying, “What quarrel is there, king of Judah, between you and me? It is not you I am attacking at this time, but the house with which I am at war. God has told me to hurry; so stop opposing God, who is with me, or he will destroy you.”

Dan 4.35 All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: “What have you done?”

I do not believe God puts anyone in power in governments, but He does allow them to be in power.

Forget about WWIII. NATO should do what is morally right. It was created to stop Russian aggression in Europe, and since Ukraine is surrounded by NATO countries it makes moral and strategic sense to stop Putin from any further incursions into Ukraine, and also drive Russia out of Crimea at the same time.

However, just like all Western leaders. NATOs leadership is as weak and feckless as Russia wants (and that is exactly why Russia made its move). NATO has said they will do nothing. Therefore after Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia will be grabbed by Putin. And if he grabs Gotland first, NATO will be helpless. Then he will go after Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary. His crazy dream is to build the "Russian Empire".

However, this thread should be moved from the Bible discussion forum, since wars and rumors of wars were already prophesied by Christ and have been happening all along.

The prophet Daniel and Jesus both disagree with you on that.

Just saying....

I’m so upset that we are bowing to that guy. It seems like we are cowards .

we forced Ukraine in 1994 to give up thier nukes in exchange for our promise that we would protect thier nation from invaders

they only gave up thier nukes because we assured them we would keep them safe. America is losing massive amounts of credibility under this current administration.

we should keep our word.

We claim to be the defenders of democracy and the light of the nations but we aren’t anymore we’ve become fat and imagined that war is a thing of the past I have always been proud to be American but lately we keep operating from fear.

I’ve followed Russia since the Reagan administration and particularly have been observing Putin’s ways . Simply he is a bully who uses threats and war against weaker nations.

he is smart in that he’s able to sense weakness and fear and exploit that when he knows you won’t fight he will keep pushing and pushing he’s a bully and he’s not crazy he knows what would happen if he used nukes he just knows our leadership is inept ,feckless , weak and distracted by the woke agenda

he watches our news more than we do looking for divisions no weaknesses to exploit. We are who he really hates because of the old days. Without us he would rule Europe , unfortunately we have no spine right now and he knows it

he will go as far as he goes until we stand up and sit him down to ata all it would take when he knows we’re gonna fight he’ll stop but we aren’t going to under Biden we’re gonna instead for us on green energy , transgender rights , what color and gender a judge is , and who better get vaccinated for a pandemic that is like the flu now

we’re only a year into this guys administration and we’re losing respect all around the world. Three more years of this and already 1 year in we’re bowing to pitons threats buying his blood oil , giving Iran weapons grade uranium , and avoiding China at all costs

this is a terriblt embarrassing time in my view to be an American in ashamed and I’ve always been proud

it’s really an odd time for me

I'm interested in a biblical approach, but it could've been, yes.

2 of my grandparents families came from Ukraine--Germans who lived in Ukraine, late 1800s. Undoubtedly I have relatives there. I don't want them to be slaves or worker drones.

I have the same sense, and yet I do fear God--sometimes He wants us to be restrained until the right path is made clear to us. So I'm personally hesitant about declaring God wants this or that. Personally, I'd love to see somebody's air force bear down on that caravan of tanks coming down towards Kiev from the north.

Yes, I think this is a critically-important point when determining the ethics of getting involved, if it comes to that. God condemns those who move boundary stones, or who don't live up to their covenant agreement. Russia is clearly cursed. It's just a matter of how God wishes to judge her.

My Grandfather had to escape Russia from his home in Ukraine, and was under threat of being shot. I don't blame him for leaving! I was told my other Grandfather left Finland because he didn't want to be conscripted into the Russian military.

Clearly, Biden tests which way the wind is blowing before acting. He hides behind the "skirts" of European policy. He leads from behind.

Sounds like we think a lot of the same thoughts. Thanks.

And I share in your desires. I don't want that to happen either.

It's extremely embarrassing to have the current leadership that America has. Especially when they were expected to step up a long time ago...but instead the current President's son (Hunter) should be convicted of pilfering and performing a con job with his family's own pockets profiting from the crime.

So yeah...I think that this is an exercise in the results of bad choices that God is letting us have to see and experience. And it isn't pleasant.

Some truth in that for sure.

Hosea 8.4 They set up kings, but not from Me [therefore without My blessing]; They have appointed princes, but I did not know it.

But God certainly does control who gets in power, whether it is His wish to bless people or His need to curse people...

Dan 2. 19 During the night the mystery was revealed to Daniel in a vision. Then Daniel praised the God of heaven 20 and said:
“Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever;
wisdom and power are his.
21 He changes times and seasons;
he deposes kings and raises up others.
He gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to the discerning.

We, as the Body of Christ are not an earthly nation and so do not go to war against man. We pray for those on both sides that they will turn to God amid all the carnage.

God made positions of authority however He will judge how those in power operated, as regards for the nations. The Body of Christ, the believer is to be a voice of righteousness, compassion and call to repentance in Christ, (reconciliation).

Sounds like a total copout, a hermit's existence. To not participate in the instruments of justice in the world is to neglect some of the most basic commands of God. Are we our brother's keeper? Of course we are! Are we to submit to our government? Certainly there are different kinds of "submission" to our political authorities. Serving in the armed forces is not automatically "evil" and "unChristian."

I agree that sometimes we should not become entangled in the politics of this world. But sometimes we are called to do so, if only as a witness within the various organizations. We may not be able to promote something completely Christian. But sometimes we can propose good compromises.

Sometimes, the nation is partially Christian, and a war may serve a Christian purpose. There is such a thing, after all, as a "just war." Wars of defense are not always unchristian. I don't know why you would assume that everything a national government does is hopelessly compromised and evil?

Why not just let Russia have Ukraine, let Ukraine decide if they can integrate with Russia, and we keep relative peace and stability?

Our best chance is for one of Putin’s generals to put a bullet in his head.

At the same time Biden, Harris, Trudeau, and Freeland should be arrested and locked up. The war would come to an end and all attacks on the constitutions in North America would also come to an end.

I listened to a former head of MI6 on this subject. He said that MI6 knew that Putin would invade. He also said that clandestine operations are always exposed eventually. He made a lot of sense. He said that Putin must be left with a way out, otherwise there will be quick end to the conflict.

That is why a no-fly zone is a no go. No one wins a nuclear war. Putin may have gone over the edge mentally. An unstable man with nukes at his disposal is a dangerous combination.

The real battle is spiritual. God's people need to pray as never before. During WW2, many Christians prayed. Hitler made decisions that seemed crazy. Invading Russia was one, not building more submarines another. Christians at the time credited God with confusing His enemies. I agree 100%.