An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation

This is a presumption. You have no facts. A "white robe" does not equal a glorified body.

Are you aware of the fact that scholars don't agree on who these crowned individuals even are?

Then explain why John called the resurrection of tribulational martyrs the FIRST resurrection in Rev 20:5. Because a number of verses clearly teach that there is just ONE resurrection of the saved.

So you have a counting problem to fix.

Since there is only one resurrection of the saved and one for the unsaved (Acts 24:15), one must be very careful where on the timeline of history they place that resurrection of the saved.

Where you're trying to place it gets refuted by Rev 20:5, plus 2 Thess 2:1 and 1 Cor 15:23.

Do you have a clearly worded verse that shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?

Please share if you do.

If they are unable to answer that simple straightforward question, then I would hope that they would reconsider there position/view so that they can be blessed.

I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Which ones in Revelation have been Resurrected into a Glorified Body?

Before I begin to address the other two passages as you have given them - being 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and 1 Corinthians 15:23 can you show me in any semblance of a chronology from Revelation 20 (including your verse five) where the first resurrection fits with the thousand year kingdom? Does the first resurrection precede or proceed the thousand year kingdom?

I'll answer your race theory question when I think you have the stomach to eat it without vomiting.

This matter of the first resurrection and the rapture ought to be a singularly simple matter to resolve. I'm sure that you believe that you have done. And assuming I do in fact understand the simplicity of what you are citing as truth on the matter from the Scripture - then the obvious difficulty is how can there be a rapture prior to the first resurrection - seeing as the first resurrection is in direct relationship to the Lord's return and could, therefore, be said to be simultaneous to the first resurrection [the rapture you understand] in rather the same way it could be said that all men rise at the sound of the Kings Trumpet. When the King arrives - all men must rise up to meet Him, whether they are at sleep or whether they are yet alive in their bodies - who are seated in His Kingdom.

So then, the difficulty, seeing as your answer is already clear - is how can there be a rapture and a meeting the King that precedes the trumpet sound (the last trumpet) that heralds His entry into the seat of His government and His 1000 year Kingdom.

Beginning with Revelation 20:1-15

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Chapter 21 of Revelation speaks about the new heavens and the new earth. And all that is in chapter 20 of Revelation precedes that newness. Also, that Revelation chapter 20 proceeds the great tribulation must be self evident - else we can have no origination of common sense at all. No point of reference and so no fixed or worthwhile answer other than to say what the Lord has told ourselves - f we have asked Him or indeed if we have need to ask Him.

So I ask:

Before I begin to address the other two passages as you have given them - being 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and 1 Corinthians 15:23 can you show me in any semblance of a chronology from Revelation 20 (including your verse five) where the first resurrection fits with the thousand year kingdom? Does the first resurrection precede or proceed the thousand year kingdom?

The Millennium takes place on Earth, not in Heaven.

Yes, this is the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Those "In Christ" are those who are the members of The Church. This is you and I. We are the Bride who shall be glorified and part of the wedding in Heaven while Tribulation occurs down on Earth. We shall then descend with Jesus to Earth as He ushers in the 1000 year Millennial Reighn on Earth.

Revelation
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

God bless and Godspeed.

Dogs are not cats.

That is neither helpful nor pertinent to the discussion. I must conclude that you have nothing Helpful to contribute. This was all you could say in response to the Scripture I posted:

All those who were taken up in the Rapture. They have also been given white robes and attended the Marriage Feast. They shall the descend with Christ at His Second Coming to reign with Him 1000 years on Earth.

Revelation
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

what does this have to do with the 144000?

I refuse to play into your all anti pre-trib nonsense anymore. If you want to discuss that open another thread.

I personally could care less about when the rapture happens..

the ones who are sitting in the throne room at the least.

WHat does that have to do with the 144000?? Can you explain that?

Nor was this, "The Millennium takes place on Earth, not in Heaven."

Those are not Resurrected/raptured Saints - but they are the Saints who have died in Christ and their Spirits are on those horses.

The Resurrection/rapture occurs in chapter 20

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands.
And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Well either you or the Apostle Paul was fibbing - I believe the Apostle Paul and God who spoke to Abraham.

To be clear, v.5 isn't my verse. It is in the Bible, in case you missed that.

ch 20 reads very chronologically. Begins with after the end of the battle of Armageddon, and Satan bound for 1,000 years.
Then the tribulation martyrs have resurrected and reign with Christ for the Millennium.
At the end of the Millennium, Satan is released to deceive the nations again. God destroys the whole lot of mortal humanity at the battle of Gog and Magog, and Satan is thrown into the lake of fire.
Then all unbelievers will attend the GWT judgment before being cast into the lake of fire.

Then we have ch 21 and the new heaven and new earth.

Your snarkiness aside, which bores me, I never asked a "race theory question". Maybe you are confusing me with another poster.

Of course it is.

There can't be.

Back up to the beginning of your post, where I addressed all this.

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you have a clearly worded verse that shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?

Please share if you do.
It doesn't. The question is straight forward. Why are you so hesitant to answer it?

FACT - the 144,000 are His People = the Bride of Christ
IMHO - the number 144,000 is symbolic of the Truth of the Body of Christ
FACT - We, Jew and Gentile, make up His Bride
FACT - When we are Born-Again we are BORN into the ISRAEL of GOD
FACT - There is no separation between Jew & Gentile in the Bride and Body of Christ

Just a reminder: We can discuss and debate and still do it in the Love of Christ which PLEASES HIM and keeps us out of TROUBLE.

Amen! Bless you, brother!

Love Brother Oyster and always enjoyed our conversations and even the disagreements.
When are you coming over for coffee?