After water Baptism

“The water baptism and New Birth preceeds the baptism of the Holy Spirit.”

the Holy Spirit is a gift freely given of Gods eternal Promise. It comes because of the one gospel that is what tells us of the water , blood and spirit.

No I don’t even see the three witnesses belnf John Jesus and Peter there’s no scripture to say anything like that.

the three witnesses are the water of baltism for remission of sins , the word of Christ which tells us about remission is the spirit , and the blood he shed for remission of sins. They all three are in agreement it’s what the gospel teaches about.

water

“As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:2, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And blood

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure where your getting that John Peter and Jesus are the three witnesses it says who they are

“And there are three that bear witness in earth,

the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭KJV‬

it’s what the gospel is all about the word of Jesus Christ , the blood of Jesus Christ and the baptism of Jesus Christ

the Holy Ghost is the result of believing the gospel it’s a gift promised by Jesus himself it’s something only Jesus can do and all We can do is receive it.

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he was talking about this

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is the only way to receive the Holy Ghost

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you don’t have to first get water baptized look at what happened there after the y received the gift of the spirit through hearing and believing the word then after that Peter commands water baptism because it’s another of the witnesses that agrees to remission
Of sins

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or the order can come the other way of one believes the word

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the spirit is the word of Christ that agrees to the water and blood of remission those are the witnesses.

the Holy Ghost is the promise of Hkd to believers of the gospel there’s no particulate order one can hear and believe and receive the Holy Ghost , or one can hear and believe about baltism forst get baptized and then receive the gift

the only relevance is that the three witnesses agree in one Jesus Christ. The water testifies to the believer who hears about the blood through the spirit the word of Christ.

The Holy Ghost is a gift coming from heaven there’s nothing we can do to receive it but belief of the gospel and we can’t baptize anyone else in the Holy Ghost it comes from the throne of God through the promise of Jesus Christ.

Brother it’s okay if you don’t agree , but no I don’t hear things not made plain on scripture I believe those things that are .

the three witnesses are the water , blood and spirit this spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this water

“And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this blood

“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those three witnesses tell us that through Jesus our sins have been remitted they all Agree that just my position though it’s to basic for me to part from it

There LOOK = in your own Post = TWO baptisms

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well

lol no one baptism with three witnesses that agree. There is one baptism

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭

that should dispel any notion Thy at there are two baptisms.

all three witnesses agree with one baptism.
“And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s the same concept as the trinity the three are one.

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬
L

It’s also witnessed in the ot

they passed through the water , received the spiritual word in the cloud , and shed the blood of animals for remission. A simple pattern given to Moses beforehand.

there’s one baptism three witnesses tonite purpose remission of sins and all agree in one Jesus Christ it’s why we’re baptized into his name.

but it doesn’t seem like we’re agreeing so I’m gonna let it rest.

Hey, before when i said: "water baptism unto repentence and Born- Again precede Holy Spirit baptism I was following the order of the Gospel - First came John water baptism, then Jesus spoke of the New Birth, then Jesus spoke of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

And lol back at ya my Brother who i enjoy and love.

amen brother

I was just highlighting that the order doesn’t matter by showing you what happened in acts ten

We will always be blessed fellowshipping together even when we disagree because we both share the same SPIRIT - Amen

I may certainly be wrong, but it just seems to [me] that "we're" making things more difficult to understand than they really need to be. In my opinion, the Grace of God is not complicated, for the Lord extends this Grace to anyone He so chooses . . . and apart from any condition other than being Purified by Him. The Holy Spirit does not share His House with the Devil, thus, the one condition that must be met for a person to be granted the Holy Spirit, is for their heart to be cleared of the Adamic Curse.

Therefore, for Eldad and Medad to be Graced with the Holy Spirit, their hearts were assuredly Purified. If a person is Cursed, the Holy Spirit cannot be associated with any person; this only seems reasonable and logical. But once that Curse has been lifted, Repentance is granted, and so is the Holy Spirit . . . and these Spiritual Gifts will be given by the Lord according to His timing.

Numbers 11:25-29 NLT - "And the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to Moses. Then he gave the seventy elders the same Spirit that was upon Moses. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But this never happened again. Two men, Eldad and Medad, had stayed behind in the camp. They were listed among the elders, but they had not gone out to the Tabernacle. Yet the Spirit rested upon them as well, so they prophesied there in the camp. A young man ran and reported to Moses, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp!" Joshua son of Nun, who had been Moses' assistant since his youth, protested, "Moses, my master, make them stop!" But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit upon them all!"

BTW: I wrote earlier that Joshua called for the deaths of Eldad and Medad after they obtained the Spirit. Clearly, I was wrong.

Simply put, God will grant His Grace and Mercy to anyone He so chooses, and this is about as deep as the teaching needs to be (in my opinion . . . and I could certainly be wrong).

Exodus 33:19 KJV - "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."

If Eldad and Medad were able to receive the Spirit without conditions other than Circumcision of the Heart, then I don't see why that wouldn't also apply to us today.

Mostly I think we’re just hashing out what the Bible says , there’s bound to be disagreement at times but it seems simple to each of us. When we see it different it seems complex

Mostly I think we’re just hashing out what the Bible says , there’s bound to be disagreement at times but it seems simple to each of us. When we see it different it seems complex

If the Gentiles with Peter were filled with the Holy Spirit prior to any water baptism, exactly why is water baptism necessary? (Other than to profess to your fellows). It seems that, once again, man has to make a ritual out of everything.

I hear you, and I am likely guilty of looking at my own experience with God to determine what is and is not critical regarding Scripture. As I've said before, this is a dangerous thing to do. Furthermore, I really do dislike discussion through keyboards, mice, and monitors. They don't facilitate quick answers and quick responses. I much prefer voice-to-voice dialog if at all possible, especially for the more meaty concepts, such as this one between yourself and DT.

And now that I think of it, I just don't have the time to dig into each of the passages that you're both bringing up. I sure wish that I did.

because of what we’ve been talking about

It’s an act of faith because you believe in the shed blood of Jesus Christ for remission of sins. It is the believer agreeing that their sins are remitted through Christ ( the Holy Ghost isn’t about remission of sins ) If you notice there peters first instruction was that they get baptized in water in Jesus name.

the principle is this

Sin is our upon a man by two or three witnesses

“At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭17:6‬ ‭

the opposite is true for remission of sins

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we believe this is true then this is an act of faith agreeing with what we believe

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

which also is agreed to by the word of Jesus who came to forgive our sins

the Holy Ghost is a gift given to any believer but it doesn’t remit sin to receive that gift the witness of Jesus blood and baptism for remission remit sins.

Notice Peter as soon as he realizes they received the hilt spirit commands then then to get baptized in water

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“faith without works is dead “ do you know that saying in James ? Faith is when we hear what God said to do because we believe in the blessing he said will come from it. Baptism in water is what we do because he said it’s for remission of sins. It’s an act of faith in the shed blood of Jesus a second witness to remission of sins that agrees to the blood of remission and word of Jesus saying our sins are forgiven

it’s a simple act of faith based on us hearing and believing it’s true.

So are you saying that one cannot go to heaven unless they have been water baptized?
Is that true for communion, as well?

BTW. I have been baptized in water. I just don't believe it is required.
Aren't there people that have not been submerged that will still see heaven?

yeah no I’m not at all disparaging your take , I’m just saying a lot of what looks like arguing is just two folks hashing our scripture and it also sometimes seems complex if we’re not studying the same subject

we’re all going to be fine if we hold tonthe faith of Jesus Christ , it’s just this forum is designed to dig into and better understand scripture. Sometimes a discussion on the internet looks like a huge argument but in person would just be a discussion trying to get tonthe truth and trim points of view debating and setting thier position

sometimes there’s insults that come other times it’s just a discussion of scriptire

I’m on no way disparaging your relationship with God. I was in the same position for most of My life always working but after retirement I find slot of free time and since the pandemic even more so I’ve been really studying and earth ting to discuss and learn others views also as well as share my own and hope it leads to better understanding for Myself and others also

Just sharing what we know , often times an experiential view has alot of wisdom as long as it agrees with the scripture

no i have never said that brother I believe this is how we are saved

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s critical in my view that he doesn’t say “ anyone who believes yet doesn’t get baptized is damned “

it’s the belief of the gospel that saves , part of it however is getting baptized. My point is if we have heard what baptism is for stated in the gospel “ remission of sins “ why would we want to resist doing it ? It’s not faith to hear believe and then refuse to do, or to hear and refuse to believe

but no im not talking about how we’re excluded from salvation just discussing baptism and it’s purpose with some others

I agree. Amen. I retired last year and have found myself focusing on getting nearer to God. My son and I are the music program for 2 different churches.

I'm just discussing doctrine. I have no worries about my own salvation.
There are some questions that should be answered like; Why did they take God's name out of the Bible 6800 times and replace it with "the Lord". He wants his NAME known. It is YHWH (not YHVH) and is pronounced Yahuah. It's odd that it was replace throughout the Bible.

It's stuff like that making me think there are dark forces at work in the world.