Pre trib doctrine REPEAT OF of the 12 spies

Numbers 13:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall ye send a man, every one a ruler among them.

3 And Moses by the commandment of the LORD sent them from the wilderness of Paran: all those men were heads of the children of Israel.

4 And these were their names: of the tribe of Reuben, Shammua the son of Zaccur.

5 Of the tribe of Simeon, Shaphat the son of Hori.

6 Of the tribe of Judah, Caleb the son of Jephunneh.

7 Of the tribe of Issachar, Igal the son of Joseph.

8 Of the tribe of Ephraim, Oshea the son of Nun.

9 Of the tribe of Benjamin, Palti the son of Raphu.

10 Of the tribe of Zebulun, Gaddiel the son of Sodi.

11 Of the tribe of Joseph, namely, of the tribe of Manasseh, Gaddi the son of Susi.

12 Of the tribe of Dan, Ammiel the son of Gemalli.

13 Of the tribe of Asher, Sethur the son of Michael.

14 Of the tribe of Naphtali, Nahbi the son of Vophsi.

15 Of the tribe of Gad, Geuel the son of Machi.

16 These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua.

17 And Moses sent them to spy out the land of Canaan, and said unto them, Get you up this way southward, and go up into the mountain:

18 And see the land, what it is, and the people that dwelleth therein, whether they be strong or weak, few or many;

19 And what the land is that they dwell in, whether it be good or bad; and what cities they be that they dwell in, whether in tents, or in strong holds;

20 And what the land is, whether it be fat or lean, whether there be wood therein, or not. And be ye of good courage, and bring of the fruit of the land. Now the time was the time of the firstripe grapes.

21 So they went up, and searched the land from the wilderness of Zin unto Rehob, as men come to Hamath.

22 And they ascended by the south, and came unto Hebron; where Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, the children of Anak, were. (Now Hebron was built seven years before Zoan in Egypt.)

23 And they came unto the brook of Eshcol, and cut down from thence a branch with one cluster of grapes, and they bare it between two upon a staff; and they brought of the pomegranates, and of the figs.

24 The place was called the brook Eshcol, because of the cluster of grapes which the children of Israel cut down from thence.

25 And they returned from searching of the land after forty days.

26 And they went and came to Moses, and to Aaron, and to all the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the wilderness of Paran, to Kadesh; and brought back word unto them, and unto all the congregation, and shewed them the fruit of the land.

27 And they told him, and said, We came unto the land whither thou sentest us, and surely it floweth with milk and honey; and this is the fruit of it.

28 Nevertheless the people be strong that dwell in the land, and the cities are walled, and very great: and moreover we saw the children of Anak there.

29 The Amalekites dwell in the land of the south: and the Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, dwell in the mountains: and the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan.

30 And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.

31 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.

32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.

33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

1 And all the congregation lifted up their voice, and cried; and the people wept that night.

2 And all the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron: and the whole congregation said unto them, Would God that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would God we had died in this wilderness!

3 And wherefore hath the LORD brought us unto this land, to fall by the sword, that our wives and our children should be a prey? were it not better for us to return into Egypt?

4 And they said one to another, Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt.

5 Then Moses and Aaron fell on their faces before all the assembly of the congregation of the children of Israel.

6 And Joshua the son of Nun, and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, which were of them that searched the land, rent their clothes:

7 And they spake unto all the company of the children of Israel, saying, The land, which we passed through to search it, is an exceeding good land.

8 If the LORD delight in us, then he will bring us into this land, and give it us; a land which floweth with milk and honey.

9 Only rebel not ye against the LORD, neither fear ye the people of the land; for they are bread for us: their defence is departed from them, and the LORD is with us: fear them not.

10 But all the congregation bade stone them with stones. And the glory of the LORD appeared in the tabernacle of the congregation before all the children of Israel.

11 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe Me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?

12 I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.

13 And Moses said unto the LORD, Then the Egyptians shall hear it, (for thou broughtest up this people in thy might from among them

14 And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou LORD art among this people, that thou LORD art seen face to face, and that thy cloud standeth over them, and that thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.

15 Now if thou shalt kill all this people as one man, then the nations which have heard the fame of thee will speak, saying,

16 Because the LORD was not able to bring this people into the land which he sware unto them, therefore he hath slain them in the wilderness.

17 And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my Lord be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,

18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

19 Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.

20 And the LORD said, I have pardoned according to thy word:

21 But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and My miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to My voice;

23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked Me see it:

24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed Me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

So... where's the pre-trib angle?

Non-existent. Just another flight of fancy.

Yup. Not even a bit of pre-trib rapture or resurrection. Lol. I don't get it.

I guess the 'pre-trib' angle went right out the window.............

I'm guessing that the OP is suggesting that the 10 spies who said that the inhabitants of the land were giants (and that the Israelites wouldn't be able to conquer them) are the same as those who hold to a pre-trib rapture. In other words, the supposed attitude of PTR's is "we shouldn't have to go through the tribulation; we should escape it".

On the other hand, the two spies (of whom one was Caleb) who said that the Israelites could conquer the land could be likened, according to the OP, to those who say that believers WILL go through the tribulation but that they must stand firm and strong in the Lord.

At least, that's the way I understand it.

Gods power and strength is shown through His people. It isn't by them 'running away'. When we see something that appears to be to hard we call on God and have the faith for Him to deliver us or carry us. He has performed miracle after miracle on this earth. WE ARE TO HAVE FAITH in the POWER OF GOD.

HOW MANY 'YE'S DOES IT TAKE FOR 'YE' TO SEE?

HERE IS WHAT WILL BE TAKING PLACE TO THOSE WHO ARE GRAFTED INTO CHRIST.

ARE YOU GRAFTED INTO CHRIST?

YES, SOME OF THOSE BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF SO THAT YOU COULD BE GRAFTED IN. NOT TO DIVIDE BUT TO BE GRAFTED INTO CHRIST EXACT SAME. ALL THE OTHER STUFF IS CALLED DECEPTION. AND IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THAT DELUSION YOU CAN FIND ALL YOU WANT TO SAY, BUT NONE OF IT WILL BE WRITTEN. YES, THE SPIES HAD NO FAITH IN GOD, JUST LIKE THOSE LOOKING TO ESCAPE THE TRIBULATION COMING UPON THE WHOLE WORLD. LIKE THOSE WHO ARE FIGHTING DAY AND NIGHT TO SEPARATE WHAT GOD HAS BROUGHT TOGETHER. KNOCKED DOWN THE PARTITION BETWEEN.

ONE BODY.



Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.

FOR WHOS NAME? CHRIST NAME. FOR CHRIST'S SAKE. THIS IS WHAT IS COMING UPON THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST. THESE ARE WHAT THE BRANCHES ARE GOING TO GO THROUGH. ARE YOU GRAFTED INTO CHRIST AS THEY ARE?

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

WHO WILL BE SAVED? NOT HE WHO DOESN'T ENDURE TO THE END.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

WHO SEES THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION? THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTS. CHRISTIANS. YOU KNOW THOSE WHO ARE THE BRANCHES. SOME OF THE BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF SO THAT YOU COULD BE GRAFTED IN. SAME ROOT. SAME JOB. SAME FUTURE. SAME ENDURE TO THE END. SAME WORDS OF GOD APPLY TO YOU AS THEY DO ALL CHRISTIANS. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:LET THIS BRANCH

Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. LET THIS BRANCH

Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: LET THIS BRANCH

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. FOR THESE BRANCHES

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
LOOK UP IN THE SKY PRE TRIB THERE IS CHRIST.

WHAT ARE THE BRANCHES TOLD TO DO? NOT BELIEVE THOSE FALSE PROPHETS. COULD HE HAVE MADE IT ANY MORE CLEAR. WHAT COULD HE HAVE SAID OTHER THAN DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE WHO TELLS YOU CHRIST IS COMING FIRST FOR ANY REASON EVER ESPECIALLY IF THAT REASON GOES AGAINST ALL THAT IS WRITTEN. ALL THAT IS WRITTEN GOES AGAINST WHAT PRE TRIB RAPTURE IS ABOUT.

PRE TRIB RAPTURE SAVE YOURSELF, SAVE YOUR LIFE, DON'T CARRY YOUR CROSS, DON'T BE PROVED, DON'T DEPEND ON GOD, DON'T HAVE FAITH IN HIS ABILITIES TO KEEP YOU UNDER HIS PROTECTIVE WING. WORRY ABOUT THE DEATH OF THIS FLESH. DON'T ENDURE TO THE END. DON'T BE AROUND FOR A TEN DAY TRIAL.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


BEHOLD HE IS IN THE AIR (NOT TOUCHING DOWN ON THE EARTH) BUT IN THE AIR - GO NOT FORTH

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

WELL THERE WERE ANGELS FROM HEAVEN ON EARTH AT THE TIME OF NOAH, THERE ARE GOING TO BE ANGELS ON EARTH WHEN CHRIST RETURNS.

CHRIST RETURNS AFTER SATAN AND HIS ANGELS ON EARTH.


Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

so the connection is that we are to endure the test and not be afraid of what is ahead is what I’m seeing you make ? And not that we will be magically delivered from it ?

God doesn't work that way and God doesn't like those who do. Even the two witnesses that were 'raptured' are coming back to die. AND THEIR WORK WAS FINISHED. BUT it is written for every man to die once and judgment. PRE TRIB EVEN TURNS THAT INTO A LIE.

It is starting to get late in the day here on earth. Now, I could understand how in the beginning of this rapture thing heads could have been turned and there were enough Scriptures to sway a person who didn't understand what was written, but now a days, with computers, it just is shown to be a lie as EVERYTHING IT SAYS GOES AGAINST GOD. BUT I think the REASON it is still around is because those who see the truth didn't put it down, and so it flourished. That is why you see them coming to threads and saying 'enough', don't do this, let it alone, because the MORE WE BRING IT OUT INTO THE LIGHT THE LESS IT CAN HIDE. Pride, deception or delusion all super hard to fight.

I am not here to change a single mind of those who believe it. I am smart enough to know THAT that is from God and that takes personal knee time with strong crying and lots of tears. NO, my goal is to make sure those who don't know SEE WHAT IS WRITTEN and don't believe in what isn't written but is 'hath God said'.

The lack of FAITH in the plan of God. The lack of willingness to STAND up for the Lord....HURTS my soul. The belief that this flesh body not getting hurt or the soul and spirit tested IS THE OBJECT. not the thing God would have us avoid. I don't have words. THAT IS WHAT THE WHOLE BIBLE IS ABOUT.


Think about it. The one generation who HAS ACCESS to everything God has ever given anyone, the one who literally is capable of being the most prepared to fight against the powers of darkness, WANT TO ESCAPE. I personally don't believe that anyone who has ever studied the OT and reads the psalms all the time could have this belief.


ONE TIME and a short time that is, will there ever be the opportunity TO STAND in the face of the ADVERSARY for the CHRIST'S SAKE. Could you imagine taking that WORK with you for ever? Can you think of a more important work? And it isn't like we aren't all going to die already.

I think the reactions really tells the story I am fighting against. So cavalier. CAN'T WAIT TILL JUDGMENT DAY.

while I myself believe that there is no such thing as a pre trib rapture. And see some good in what your saying and the intent within you

I’m compelled to offer this consideration to you whether you hear or decline

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;

if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think that is really good advice. Would you say it wasn't gentle enough or the meekness didn't shine through? I guess I didn't try hard enough to tone it down. Too many enlargements? or the CAPITOL letters? Just kidding. Thank you for the tune up. I will try harder.

oh no brother all I was getting at is even if someone has a good word , the way we interact with fellow believers matters a lot to whether they will interact with us or be willing to hear anything we’re trying to say.

Jesus interacted with sinners in a certain way which is part of the reason they responded to him , while the self righteous rejected him and treated what they deemed as sinners in a different way

it’s something we all should work on rather than just arguing constantly. It’s as much for me as you, and benefits us all

You did not overstep at all. I believe we all get emotional and sometimes just need another to give a little nudge and say 'check it' I really appreciated the gentle approach also. So thank you. We are good.

Amidst all the yelling and additions to the text of Scripture, I still see no connection whatsoever between the 12 spies and the "pre-trib rapture".

amen we sure do especially when we are convinced and know something , that’s just what I was saying it’s as much for myself as you or anyone else. If we want to be effective and help others understand our point we should look to the understanding in the scripture. But also always be willing to hear thier points.

that scripture I shared with you is something I’m myself working towards , it’s the reason I shared it with you. Sometimes I read my words and they come off like I didn’t intend especially because online we never really see the demeanor someone’s speaking with.

anyways I’m glad you received it the way you did as a brotherly reminder that i myself also need to take into account. Because I recognize the food you have to share

Do you see a DISCONNECT between the 'being taken to heaven' and the KINGDOM COMING HERE?
Our Father which art in heaven hallowed by Thy name, THY KINGDOM COME, Thy will be done, ON EARTH as it is in heaven


If you don't see it there, Let us pray that this will help you to see that 'pre trib rapture'
wouldn't be PRECIOUS in the sight of YHVH?

Precious in the sight of YHVH is the death of His saints

PRECIOUS RARE SPLENDID WEIGHTY
3368. yaqar ►
Strong's Concordance
yaqar: precious, rare, splendid, weighty
Original Word: יָקָר
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: yaqar
Phonetic Spelling: (yaw-kawr')
Definition: precious, rare, splendid, weighty




The LORD has been preserving us from evil WE just have to call upon His name. It has been working for ever it seems. Do this help?

Psalm 121:1 I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

2 My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.

3 He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.

4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.

5 The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand.

6 The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.

7 The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

8 The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.




HAVE ye not read? The gates of hell will come against it, but they shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Can you find ANY connection between pre trib and this? I don't think you can because of the prayer JESUS MAKES here. Have you ever read this before? Maybe this will be the time?? Let us pray.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

I apologize for all the yelling and hope the ADDITIONS here will be found to be more helpful to you.

I am sure you have read the OT but if not, I would like you to take a look at this. I pray you will be able to see THE CONNECTION to pre trib here.

Ezekiel 13:17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.


I can think of NO other doctrine this could be speaking to, can you? It describes the pre trib rapture theory to a T, does it not?

Again, apologies if you could not see the connection between the spies and the pre trib escape of the coming trib. I can only pray it was from my AWFUL approach. These are just some of the places from off the top of my head, but you have inspired me to search for more.

kleronomos said:

Do you see a DISCONNECT between the 'being taken to heaven' and the KINGDOM COMING HERE?
Our Father which art in heaven hallowed by Thy name, THY KINGDOM COME, Thy will be done, ON EARTH as it is in heaven

Click to expand...

Because of the awkward phrasing of your question, it is impossible to determine whether you think the rapture would be precious in God's sight. Instead of "Let us pray", how about "YOU explain"?

No, it doesn't. You see a connection that I don't, and you are not spelling it out in plain language.

Yes, I have read. I've read the entire Bible many times.

A better translation is "withstand". The church is on the advance, not on retreat.

Again, don't treat me like I'm ignorant. Rather, please explain your position clearly, in plain language, with clear and relevant Scripture, not rhetoric.

None of the passages you have cited have anything to do with the twelve spies. None of the explanation you have provided demonstrates a clear link, even tenuous, between the pre-trib rapture and the twelve spies.

Not even remotely. It's talking about the abominable practices of witchcraft, which you might see if you used a modern translation instead of trying to wade through 16th-century middle English. Perhaps you should stop assuming that most OT prophecies have yet to be fulfilled.

Apology accepted, but not necessary. Again, I would encourage you to make clear the connection you see, without using other Scripture, which just obfuscates your explanation.

Amos 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Amos 8:10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD

Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.







God wants us to make a STAND. To PROCLAIM HIS GLORY. To fight for the right. To spread HIS WORDS. His desire is that ALL COME TO REPENTANCE. Therefore, basic common sense tells us that taking 'the church', his army on the earth, built up over 2000 years, who is responsible for doing just that, away WOULD not be the way to get every last souls to come to repentance.

Let's remember His first chosen people didn't want the whole world to hear. So what did God do? He brought in a nation that would spread HIS TRUTH. A nation that would come in faith. HOW DOES ONE COME IN FAITH? What is written?



13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?

and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?

and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

TO THE END OF THE WORLD

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

A foolish nation I would agree especially IF THEY THINK that Gods Plan has changed from what it has always been.



2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

GOD HIMSELF IS AND HAS SUFFERED THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE. GOD HAS DIED FOR OUR SINS TO BE FORGIVEN. GOD HAS DONE EVERYTHING FOR US and He asks us to SPREAD THE WORD AND DON'T DENY HIM and ENDURE TO THE END. Is that really asking to much? Hey, they can only kill you the one time and that time IS PRECIOUS in the eyes of God. It carries weight with Him. Surely He knows, that to love someone that much that you would willingly give your life for them, is the greatest sacrifice of all. Why would He deny us that opportunity. He tells us He will never give us more than we can handle. Doesn't that tell you that those who can will and those who can't won't. How do you remove from those willing and able for those who aren't?

I have heard tell 'the rapture' will make the believers repent. BUT what GOD SAYS tells us a lot about how GOD feels about that

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired Him that He would shew them a sign from heaven.

2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.

3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And He left them, and departed.



1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


I hope this explains.