Doctrine of Unconditional Election

In fact, the experience on the road to Damascus was to prove to Paul that Jesus HAD BEEN resurrected. Up to that point, he, like all the other religious leaders, viewed Him as a mere human, and therefore blasphemous for claiming to be God's Son.

Hey, everybody.

To spare me from having to wade through 157 pages of posts here, could somebody please just give me a brief list of the differences of opinion here in relation to what "election" is?

Thanks in advance.

Real simple. Calvinists claim that God elects or chooses who will believe, and use Eph 1:4 to propagate that idea.

But EVERY verse in the NT that conveys a purpose in election, is to service. Including Eph 1:4. The "us" in "God has chosen us" is defined in v19 as "us who believe". So, in fact, Eph 1:4 says that God chose believers. The "in Him" is a parenthetical phrase, and doesn't define the purpose of election.

The purpose is stated in the words "to be holy and blameless". This is an election to service, since being holy and blameless is a lifestyle to be lived.

An excellent example that clearly shows election is to service is here:

1 Cor 1:27,28

27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,

Red words refer to what God has chosen.
Blue words refer to the purpose of God's election: service.

John 6:70,71 proves that election is NOT to salvation:

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

Red words refer to who God has chosen.
Blue words refer to the purpose for which Judas was chosen. Again, service.

Overall, I've found two, but I guess there could be other permutations.

Some believe it represents those whom God has chosen from the foundation of the world to salvation (my belief too)
Some believe it is to service

Hope that helps

when you wont look at the actuall verses in question. You will never see it.

You can run,, But there will come a time when you can not hide.

Hey, everybody.

To spare me from having to wade through 157 pages of posts here, could somebody please just give me a brief list of the differences of opinion here in relation to what "election" is?

Thanks in advance.

Anyone truly interested in knowing God's word just can not read those chapters or the Old Testament alone and come to spiritual wisdom

--you obviously don't understand how God wrote the Bible: He wrote it as ONE integrated book. That which was begun in the Old Testament was completed in/by the New Testament in Christ and in no other way. All of the Bible starts with, and ends with, Christ.

If you try to isolate the OT verses as being self-contained, you will miss the message.The Old Testament writings were not intended by God to be perceived as stand-alone, nor as ends in themselves which God just happened to pass-through to the New Testament as-is. From the OT to the NT it is the progressive revelation of God's doctrines, all of which must terminate in Christ and in Christ alone - He is the apex of the spiritual pyramid, with everything beneath and culminating in, by, and for Him - with nothing left outside of Him.

Brother, as far as I know the split is Calvinism vs Arminianism. But from what I gather here, not everyone holds to the entirety of what Calvin taught. The tulip set of beliefs. Some believe parts of the "petals" so to speak. Hope that helps.

No one here said you do. We can't get off step one because you deny that the Abrahamic Covenant was both eternal and unconditional, which you have been shown, by Scripture, that they are. We're stuck at step one because of you! You're denying what the Word says. If you deny the OT why move on to the NT?

Thanks.

At my end (the correct response to what follows), you know where Calvin can put his "tulips" (two lips).

Anyhow, I couldn't even tell anybody what Arminianism is if someone put a gun to my head.

I do know scripture, though...

Your problem is that you don't realize who the promise was made to by God. It was NOT to Abraham's physical seed but his spiritual seed. If you'd try to harmonize Old and New Testaments, you'd see that


[Rom 9:7-8 KJV]
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[Rom 4:13 KJV] 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Anyone truly interested in knowing God's word just can not read those chapters or the Old Testament alone and come to spiritual wisdom --you obviously don't understand how God wrote the Bible: He wrote it as ONE integrated book. That which was begun in the Old Testament was completed in/by the New Testament in Christ and in no other way. All of the Bible starts with, and ends with, Christ.
If you try to isolate the OT verses as being self-contained, you will miss the message.
The Old Testament writings were not intended by God to be perceived as stand-alone, nor as ends in themselves which God just happened to pass-through to the New Testament as-is. From the OT to the NT it is the progressive revelation of God's doctrines, all of which must terminate in Christ and in Christ alone - He is the apex of the spiritual pyramid, with everything beneath and culminating in, by, and for Him - with nothing left outside of Him. This is why I wanted to know if you are a Christian - because in being so, I expected you to have perceived this concept on you own, or at the least, to be open to it.
Anyway, read these verses closely. As of right now though, I'm not too hopeful you'll get it, However, should any shine through to you, let me know and I'll try to expound upon them if you'd like.

[Luk 24:27 KJV] 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

[Jhn 5:39 KJV] 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

[Psa 40:7 KJV] 7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
[Heb 10:7 KJV] 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

[2Co 1:20 KJV] 20 For all the promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

[Act 18:28 KJV] 28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, [and that] publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

[2Ti 3:15 KJV] 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Your reply to me worked fine. I am not sure what happened before.

Understanding God's Elect is very, very important. In the simplest terms, God's Elect are the ones who will truly believe in Christ and therefore be saved. Election was needed because without it, no one would have been saved. (Romans 3:10-18). Election makes possible the New Birth of John 3:3-10, at God's appointed time. The New Birth makes discerning the Truth of God possible and the Truth discerned leads one to Jesus Christ. Therefore God's Elect = all who believe and all who believe = God's Elect. (John 6:44, 65 and 10:14-16, 29).

Many people call themselves saved, when in reality they are nothing more than Religionist. Just as the Religious Jews were of Jesus's day. Salvation is all of God - from beginning to end and everything in between.

Of course not. What's the point?


I think you maybe read through Genesis 2-3. You then may need to repent of your views.


Could you tell the thread who DID "cause the fall of mankind" since you aren't familiar with Genesis 3.

Thanks.

No, it is not offered to all but only for those chosen by God for it.

And, in thinking about it further, let me add to/clarify my previous post (to you) that both the Old Testament and the New Testament
are about Christ and His salvation. They are NOT about worldly nations or people though they may seem to be on the surface.

He has chosen us before the foundations of the world. In other words back in the first earth age when we stood with Him against Satan. We will do that again at the end of this earth age while Satan is here.
.

Hey, everybody.

To spare me from having to wade through 157 pages of posts here, could somebody please just give me a brief list of the differences of opinion here in relation to what "election" is?

Thanks in advance.

Overall, I've found two, but I guess there could be other permutations.

Some believe it represents those whom God has chosen from the foundation of the world to salvation (my belief too)
Some believe it is to service

Hope that helps

Brother, as far as I know the split is Calvinism vs Arminianism. But from what I gather here, not everyone holds to the entirety of what Calvin taught. The tulip set of beliefs. Some believe parts of the "petals" so to speak. Hope that helps.

Put bluntly, if God does not keep His covenant that He made to Abe/Israel, Christians don't have a chance in hell of God keeping His promises to us. If He won't keep His promise to His chosen people, He won't keep it to the ones grafted in either.

p.s. Rogerg you might as well save your red x's for someone else. This is an issue I have studied for years. Your x isn't going to stop me or change the truth. Total waste of your time.

Parts of the covenant involve Gentiles. Other parts don't. The promise of return still remains to be fulfilled and it will be. Israel will inherit the land.