I don't understand

kenallen · Apr 13, 2022

I have been reading the bible discussion about the elect there are so many ideas what is true and what is not. One person said all that are saved are Gods elect another said they came from the first earth age because they stood with God in the war that was between God and satan. I am not sure just what to believe and where to go and find out. I thank the best advice I have gotten on this site was to be like the people of Berea. They heard the teaching of Paul and then west home and searched the scriptures to see if it was so. Can someone lay it out in simple terms for me.
Love you all in The Lord KenA

DavidTree · Apr 13, 2022

kenallen said:

Here it is:
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

LoveBrokeThru · Apr 13, 2022

kenallen said:

If you are born again, then you are one of the Elect.
God know you would be born again, (Foreknowledge) before you were born.

In other words.......... you choose to believe in Jesus.......and your "faith is accepted by God".........and He then "justifies you by your faith".

That is YOUR CHOICE.
You decide if you BELIEVE in Jesus..........

God, already knows if you will, or if you wont.........but He does not choose this for you.....>He only KNOWS if you will believe in Jesus or not.

There are CULTs, that will lie to you, and tell you that God causes you to go to heaven, or causes you to go to hell.
These cults are a part of the "predestined elect" heresy.
Never believe them.
Never listen to them.
Avoid them, as you would avoid the Devil, as he will send them to you to make you think that you have no FREE WILL.
They are LIARS.
Do not listen to them.

LactoseIntolerant · Apr 13, 2022

kenallen said:

There are some folks here who understand that universe is a pool shot. God struck the cue ball once and everything that happens happens. They are usually called calvinist or reformed. Because of their belief in predestination, they end up concluding God is responsible for everything, that includes evil and the elected and damned.

The ones that says the second age stuff, I am not too familiar with, but I suspect it has to do with the Sons of God in Genesis. I interpret them as angelic while others say the are chosen men of God. Too fill in the blanks, I believe they had to make a second age.

Most of the doctrines here come from imagination trying to fit Scriptural truth. Best stick with a sober reading of the bible.

DavidTree · Apr 13, 2022

kenallen said:

You need the Holy Spirit to understand the Scripture for it was written by Him.

This is why i strongly recommend you read the Gospel of John and as you do, pray what you read back to the LORD.

"And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly."
Matthew 6:5-6

Magenta · Apr 13, 2022

kenallen said:

Hello Ken

Calvinism essentially teaches that God will punish those who refuse His offer of salvation when that offer was never made to them -or for them- in the first place. Calvinism teaches that all does not mean all, in places where Scripture says things like: Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Where the Bible says that God desires none to perish, for all to be saved, for all to repent and come to knowledge of the truth, Calvinists will say that only applies to the elect, and the rest be damned. Line by line and precept by precept, I do not believe God to be/have the character Calvinists refuse to accept they make God out to be. They say that God ordains everything. Not just as in allowing things to happen as they do, due to the free agency of mankind, but actively causes them. That would mean they believe God causes murderers to murder and rapists to rape and pedophiles to... you get the drift. I do not believe God actually does that. I believe that in living devoid of Godly principles guiding one's life choices, people are drawn into deviancy, perversion, and all manner of sin that God did not cause or make happen at all. I believe God desires all to repent and be saved. I believe the promise given in Scripture, that if one seeks sincerely, God will reveal Himself. Now we know God also knows people are not seeking Him, and yet people do seek truth, which is embodied in the Person of Jesus Christ, Who is Himself Truth, and the way to the Father, Who accepts all who repent of their rebellion, defiance, and dereliction toward Him. We are already forgiven in Christ, Who paid the sin debt, which is sufficient for all but efficacious only for those who by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ are reconciled to God.

2 Peter 3:9

ResidentAlien · Apr 13, 2022

kenallen said:

The only way to answer this question is if God reveals it to you. It's a deep theological question that doesn't have any bearing on salvation or living a Godly life. Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

GRACE_ambassador · Apr 13, 2022

kenallen said:

Precious friend, I'll be honest that I have not studied much and made sense about
the "elect," but:

I also thank God for the "Noble Bereans" and use His verse for me as rule # 4 in
Bible study rules.

Please be Very RICHLY Encouraged and Edified in your own Daily search For Truth.
In the simplest terms of God:

GRACE And Peace...

Runningman · Apr 13, 2022

kenallen said:

Yes we are truly in a relatively golden age of Christianity where we are able to finally be Bereans. For the first 1,600 years or so, the Bible was not accessible to most individuals. This means that for most of church history congregations were orally dictated to what to believe without question and sometimes for fear of capital punishment. Most people just couldn’t be Bereans.

So let’s count our blessings on that. I think the best anyone of us can do with the Bible is be open minded. Often we may not fully understand something but in time we gain access to progressively higher echelons of knowledge and wisdom as God opens our understanding of the scriptures.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 13, 2022

kenallen said:

The term "elect" can be applied to either individuals or groups, and it does not necessarily refer to the same group. Just forget about "the first earth age" since there was no such thing. So here are the different applications of "elect" (meaning chosen by God for a specific reason):

1. CHRIST -- Isa 42:1

2. REDEEMED ISRAEL (THE NATION) -- Isa 45:4; 65:9,22

3. BELIEVING ISRAEL (THE REMNANT) -- Mt 24:24;31; Mk 13:22,27

4. THE CHILDREN OF GOD (BELIEVERS) -- Rom 8:33; Col 3:12; Tit 1:1' 1 Pet 1:2; 2:6; 2 John 1:1;13

5. HOLY ANGELS -- 1 Tim 5:21

As regards believers, election is according to God's foreknowledge, and corresponds to predestination. And predestination is for the perfection and glorification of the saints -- those who have already been saved by grace and kept by the power of God. God does NOT elect anyone for salvation or damnation (as per Calvinism), but He elects His children for glorification (as per the Bible) -- in order to be "conformed to the image of His Son".

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did [1] predestinate, them he also [2] called: and whom he called, them he also [3] justified: and whom he justified, them he also [4] glorified. (Rom 8:29,30)

[Note: "sanctified" is not included between "justified" and "glorified" in this passage, but it is a part of the process of salvation as noted in other verses]

Deuteronomy · Apr 13, 2022

Hello Ken (@kenallen), unfortunately, the Biblical topics of Divine election and predestination are almost always "hot" topics (~especially~ out here in online Christendom), and frankly, they have been so for millennia now (due to several different/opposing "systematic theologies", plus an incredible amount of misunderstanding about what these different "systems" are ~actually~ teaching, sometimes unintentionally, but unfortunately and sadly, oft times intentionally as well). So, truly understanding/getting to the bottom of such topics and what they are actually teaching is normally quite a challenge.

Systematic theologies are very interesting topics of study, but they hardly comprise what may be called, Christianity 101, which you, as one who is still pretty young in Christ (yes

) should be spending most of your time focusing on (understanding systematic theologies, which is a type of secondary level Christianity, requires that you have a good, foundational understanding of Biblical Christianity first, unless to like being frustrated and confused, that is

).

You are welcome to look into it, of course, but be careful not to let it become your focus right now, instead of growing in your knowledge and understanding of the basics, of God and of His word, of prayer, and of fellowship and witnessing, etc.

IOW, spend most of your time right now reading and seeking to understand the Bible (responding back to God in prayer about what it says as you go). And be in prayer to Him throughout the day, learning to practice His presence in every part of your life (see 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 .. yes, it is possible to obey all of those commands, believe it or not

), both for yourself and for others too*.

*(this may be helpful to you in praying at times as a pattern to follow: A.C.T.S.).

Also, be sure to place and keep yourself under the teaching and authority of a local church so that you can be properly taught, have in person fellowship and corporate worship with other believers (who can help answer the questions that you will no doubt have about the Bible, for instance), have help from other believers with things like spiritual warfare, and in just knowing and/or remembering who you now are in Christ, etc.

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - remember that, as a believer, you have been given "eternal life" by God .. e.g. John 5:24, which means you have all the time that you need to come to a proper knowledge and understanding of God, His word, and the faith (and that certainly/eventually includes understanding secondary level Christian topics too

). You also have God Himself who has promised to sanctify you (grow you up, more and more throughout your life in Christlikeness) and see you safely through this life to be with Him in Glory, as well .. e.g. Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25.

Finally, this may prove to be helpful to you as a young believer (it certainly was to me), Spiritual Boot Camp. It's a 4-part teaching series that takes a close look at four of our most important Christian spiritual disciplines, How to Study the Scriptures, How to Pray, How to Function in the Body (fellowship), and How to Witness. You can listen to one or all of these lectures for free online right now, just FYI. Just scroll down a bit when you get there and listen to/read whichever ones you want to.

peldom10 · Apr 13, 2022

kenallen said:

How much time have you spent in studying scriptures? Part of scriptures, all of scriptures or selected studies of some books.
Your words....first earth age...is pertinent and is unusual.
This is important in order to be guided in a manner which is effective immediately.
Glad to help.

kenallen · Apr 14, 2022

peldom10 said:

I have not spent a lot of time studying the bible. I really just got saved. I read the term first earth age in I thank a post by Thewatchman. Elect does sound like something special. In the navy we had the Seals and they were the best of the best. They were an elect or special group That is what I thank of when I hear elect.

kenallen · Apr 14, 2022

Deuteronomy said:

Hello Ken (@kenallen), unfortunately, the Biblical topics of Divine election and predestination are almost always "hot" topics (~especially~ out here in online Christendom), and frankly, they have been so for millennia now (due to several different/opposing "systematic theologies", plus an incredible amount of misunderstanding about what these different "systems" are ~actually~ teaching, sometimes unintentionally, but unfortunately and sadly, oft times intentionally as well). So, truly understanding/getting to the bottom of such topics and what they are actually teaching is normally quite a challenge.

Systematic theologies are very interesting topics of study, but they hardly comprise what may be called, Christianity 101, which you, as one who is still pretty young in Christ (yes

) should be spending most of your time focusing on (understanding systematic theologies, which is a type of secondary level Christianity, requires that you have a good, foundational understanding of Biblical Christianity first, unless to like being frustrated and confused, that is

).

You are welcome to look into it, of course, but be careful not to let it become your focus right now, instead of growing in your knowledge and understanding of the basics, of God and of His word, of prayer, and of fellowship and witnessing, etc.

IOW, spend most of your time right now reading and seeking to understand the Bible (responding back to God in prayer about what it says as you go). And be in prayer to Him throughout the day, learning to practice His presence in every part of your life (see 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 .. yes, it is possible to obey all of those commands, believe it or not

), both for yourself and for others too*.

*(this may be helpful to you in praying at times as a pattern to follow: A.C.T.S.).

Also, be sure to place and keep yourself under the teaching and authority of a local church so that you can be properly taught, have in person fellowship and corporate worship with other believers (who can help answer the questions that you will no doubt have about the Bible, for instance), have help from other believers with things like spiritual warfare, and in just knowing and/or remembering who you now are in Christ, etc.

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - remember that, as a believer, you have been given "eternal life" by God .. e.g. John 5:24, which means you have all the time that you need to come to a proper knowledge and understanding of God, His word, and the faith (and that certainly/eventually includes understanding secondary level Christian topics too

). You also have God Himself who has promised to sanctify you (grow you up, more and more throughout your life in Christlikeness) and see you safely through this life to be with Him in Glory, as well .. e.g. Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25.

Finally, this may prove to be helpful to you as a young believer (it certainly was to me), Spiritual Boot Camp. It's a 4-part teaching series that takes a close look at four of our most important Christian spiritual disciplines, How to Study the Scriptures, How to Pray, How to Function in the Body (fellowship), and How to Witness. You can listen to one or all of these lectures for free online right now, just FYI. Just scroll down a bit when you get there and listen to/read whichever ones you want to.

Thanks for the advise I need bible 101 just like I may still need English 101.
KenA.

peldom10 · Apr 14, 2022

kenallen said:

Let us get you off to a ...CORRECT start...then. Study the Bible...1611 edition KJV is suggested.

The Bible says...it is appointed unto man once to die...then the Judgment.
if we are ...savED ....while on this earth...(remember what ...ed...means...sealed....history...never to be changed, etc)....pray tell .....what is God judging?

While on this earth...we are repented, baptized thus ..BORN AGAIN.......living a righteous life, until the end...death.... and have faith in God's promise of eternal salvation.

Be aware, it appears we are in the end times and deceptions are greatly present as challenges from the new age religion types and are
to be avoided.

Studying God's word is the best way to meet that challenge. That allows you to validate any teaching which is ...required of a follower of Christ.

soberxp · Apr 14, 2022

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
We should constantly review the words of the Bible so that our thoughts and actions are consistent with the principles of the Bible, not like the hypocritical Pharisees.

The_Unnamed_Servent · Apr 15, 2022

Here's something that truly helped me in my walk with God.

9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks, it will be opened. 11 Now which one of you fathers will his son ask for a fish, and instead of a fish, he will give him a snake? 12 Or he will even ask for an egg, and his father will give him a scorpion? 13 So if you, despite being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?” (Luke 11:9-11).

Seek after the Holy Spirit. He will teach and lead you into all truth. He uses everything, from the birds in the sky to the fish of the sea; these are His limits. Trust in Him, pray, and wait patiently on the Lord's answer.

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. (Romans 8:28).

Beckie · Apr 15, 2022

kenallen said:

A forum is not the place to get an answer. One gets a zillion answers for many sources. Folks in forums tell each other what the other guys say/thinks/believes they are often not correct.
Read the Scriptures while asking God to open His Word to you. We all mean well but cannot all be correct.

awelight · Apr 15, 2022

kenallen said:

Who are the Elect of God? In the simplest terms - they are the ones chosen by God. There are two groups referred to in the Scriptures. Elect Angels and Elect humans.

1Ti_5:21 I charge thee in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing by partiality.
Col_3:12 Put on therefore, as God's elect, holy and beloved, a heart of compassion, kindness, lowliness, meekness, longsuffering;

Elect and non-Elect Angels were referred to in the battle in Heaven. A Third of the angels fell (non-Elect) and a two-thirds of them did not fall (Elect). The two-thirds that did not fall, were said to have been upheld in Righteousness by the power of God. There are Elect human beings and non-Elect.

You have already noticed, that the great divide, on the subject of Salvation, is basically, between those who follow the precepts of Jacobus Arminius or those of John Calvin. Thus we have the terms Arminian or Calvinist. I prefer to call this divide "Free Will vs. Free Grace".

The Free Will side - basically states that each fallen person, has the ability to choose Christ (Free Will). Therefore, they deny that man is in anyway "Depraved" - spiritually speaking. That when a person chooses Christ, as their Saviour, they then receive the blessings and Salvation that is in Jesus Christ. Therefore, their own will, is the determinate factor in their salvation.

The Free Grace side says - Due to the fall of Adam - Man became "dead" in trespasses and sin and therefore no longer possessed a working spirit. His spirit was dead and he would also experience physical death. Because of man's sinful nature, there was nothing in him, that would desire to choose Christ because he loved sin. Therefore spiritual inability or "Depravity" had taken control of their life. To rectify this, God sends the Holy Spirt to His Elect, at the appointed time and renews their spirit. That person experiences the New Birth of John 3:3-9. Having their spirit renewed and the love and control of sin broken, they now were able to understand the Gospel message and Repent and turn to Christ. Therefore, Free Grace is bestowed upon God's Elect - The ones chosen before the foundation of the world. (Eph. 1:4)

Both sides claim that Salvation is Unmerited Grace.

I agree with DavidTree's post. Read the Book of John - praying always, that the Lord might illuminate you with the Truth.

Take care....

CorrectiveLens · Apr 15, 2022

kenallen said:

It's not about the Father choosing who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Everyone is condemned because we are all sinners. The choices for God are 1: He condemns everyone and we all go to hell. That would mean that God has no mercy. 2: He saves everyone and we all go to heaven. That would mean that there is no law and order and no justice in the Father's kingdom. 3: the Father saves an elect few throughout human history.
I'm going to post a lot of Scripture on Election. You read it and make up your own mind.

I don't understand

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