Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

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A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#261
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
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#261
Aerials1978 said:
And this isn’t an attempt to demean you or anything like that. This goes to the heart of what Christianity is and why it differs from all other faiths. This not something that should be taught on haphazardly
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Didn't feel demeaned at all by you. I understand the point you're trying to make, but the Bible does not need the writers from the AD and they are fairly suspect. It does go to the heart of Christianity this is true, this is why the resurrection is hugely important!
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#263
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
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#263
Aerials1978 said:
Do you really I understand what you’re reading? Yeah, if Christ wasn’t risen, our faith futile and essentially fake. Those passages are pretty straightforward.
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Yes, I understand because indeed as you say it is very straightforward. Faith is good remember I am not saying faith is bad.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#266
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#266
A-Sword-Cometh said:
Didn't feel demeaned at all by you. I understand the point you're trying to make, but the Bible does not need the writers from the AD and they are fairly suspect. It does go to the heart of Christianity this is true, this is why the resurrection is hugely important!
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Of course it is. Your application of it though is misconstrued and amounts to false teaching. You are doing exactly what you claim to be against.
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#267
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
43
#267
Aerials1978 said:
What’s up with all the indirect answers?
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How is that indirect? I thought you just said it was straightforward?

Let's break it down then a ittle.

You are saved at the resurrection.

You have to have FAITH that Jesus was crucified and resurrected.

If Jesus was not crucified and resurrected then your faith is in vain. If there is no resurrection then also all is vanity.

It is good to have faith that Jesus is God and was crucified and resurrected because in the end Jesus will then resurrect us and thus save us as God promised throughout the scriptures.
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#268
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
43
#268
Aerials1978 said:
Of course it is. Your application of it though is misconstrued and amounts to false teaching. You are doing exactly what you claim to be against.
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Not so for the scriptures are clear that we are saved at the resurrection by faith in Jesus that he was crucified and resurrected. This is a very central theme of the Bible.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#269
Apr 22, 2013
13,588
9,107
113
#269
A-Sword-Cometh said:
Well he had the Spirit of God come upon him when Samuel anointed him king over Israel. They even had a proverb about him "is Saul also among the prophets?"
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Yep. He certainly did.

That's the point. He came UPON Saul. That is different than being regenerated, born again, and sealed with The Holy Spirit of Promise.

Also, it's very unclear that Saul is lost. He may be. But it's not clear.
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#270
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
43
#270
PennEd said:
Yep. He certainly did.

That's the point. He came UPON Saul. That is different than being regenerated, born again, and sealed with The Holy Spirit of Promise.

Also, it's very unclear that Saul is lost. He may be. But it's not clear.
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Saul had the Holy Spirit, and Saul was good at first until the day he turned against God. It's pretty clear for Saul lost the Holy Spirit indeed and an evil spirit came upon him from time to time, for which reason David would play a harp for him. It is also why Saul in great error sought after the witch of Endor because God no longer would speak to him in any way.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#271
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#271
A-Sword-Cometh said:
How is that indirect? I thought you just said it was straightforward?

Let's break it down then a ittle.

You are saved at the resurrection.

You have to have FAITH that Jesus was crucified and resurrected.

If Jesus was not crucified and resurrected then your faith is in vain. If there is no resurrection then also all is vanity.

It is good to have faith that Jesus is God and was crucified and resurrected because in the end Jesus will then resurrect us and thus save us as God promised throughout the scriptures.
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Do you know what the word imputed means? Do you know what Paul is saying when he states Christ actions are imputed unto believers? Jesus died and rose. The actions have already been done. We don’t need to die and be risen in order to have salvation.
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#272
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
43
#272
PennEd said:
Yep. He certainly did.

That's the point. He came UPON Saul. That is different than being regenerated, born again, and sealed with The Holy Spirit of Promise.

Also, it's very unclear that Saul is lost. He may be. But it's not clear.
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This is good that we are to look into King Saul. Actually allow me to post the verses as I take a break for a bit and handle some business before I return. Saul is a good point on this topic to consider and think about a bit.

Here is Saul clearly receives the Spirit of God and even a new regenerated heart too!

1 Samuel 10:9-11
9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.

10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

11 And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied among the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?



Here is Saul loses the Spirit of God

1 Samuel 16:14
14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.
 
Shepherd

Shepherd

Active member
#273
May 11, 2022
248
82
28
#273
Yes
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#274
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#274
A-Sword-Cometh said:
Not so for the scriptures are clear that we are saved at the resurrection by faith in Jesus that he was crucified and resurrected. This is a very central theme of the Bible.
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No, you’re saying Christ finished work was not whole. We need to die a physical death, wait, and then God will redeem. Meanwhile back on Earth, it’s up to us to hold the faith until the resurrection. That’s basically what you’re saying. That’s completely unbiblical.
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#275
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
43
#275
Aerials1978 said:
No, you’re saying Christ finished work was not whole. We need to die a physical death, wait, and then God will redeem. Meanwhile back on Earth, it’s up to us to hold the faith until the resurrection. That’s basically what you’re saying. That’s completely unbiblical.
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You must run the race of faith and endure to the end, one of my favorite analogies by Paul.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#276
Apr 22, 2013
13,588
9,107
113
#276
A-Sword-Cometh said:
You are saved at the resurrection.
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John says we can KNOW we are saved.

1 John 5:13

New King James Version

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, [a]and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.


And Jesus says that when we are born again we have eternal life RIGHT NOW.


John 3:36

New King James Version

36 He who believes in the Son HAS everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#277
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#277
A-Sword-Cometh said:
You must run the race of faith and endure to the end, one of my favorite analogies by Paul.
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You rely on your owe works. Again, you’re taking Paul out of context. I think you know you’re wrong because other scripture I have given you simply don’t acknowledge it.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#278
Apr 22, 2013
13,588
9,107
113
#278
A-Sword-Cometh said:
This is good that we are to look into King Saul. Actually allow me to post the verses as I take a break for a bit and handle some business before I return. Saul is a good point on this topic to consider and think about a bit.

Here is Saul clearly receives the Spirit of God and even a new regenerated heart too!

1 Samuel 10:9-11
9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.

10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

11 And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied among the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?



Here is Saul loses the Spirit of God

1 Samuel 16:14
14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.
Click to expand...
Again, I agree the Spirit came upon Saul. Different from SEALING him.

"another heart" could simply mean He changed Saul's mind about being the king. In the previous chapter, Saul was reluctant to become King. One of the renderings of "heart" in that passage is mind, or will.

3820. leb
leb: inner man, mind, will, heart
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#279
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#279
A-Sword-Cometh said:
For the first part of the chapter; Korah.

For the last part of the chapter; Jeremiah
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I agree - so I think, if Korah and his small army conspired to overthrow Moses, did Ananias and Saphira and others they represented also conspire to overthrow Peter?
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#280
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#280
peldom10 said:
Plea



Seriously you need to study the Bible.

Lot's wife!!

Many in the great flood.

Many in parting of the sea.

etc.

Surely you mean another point?
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heavens above, don't you know that God deals with man differently in this grace epoch than He did before Christ?

He dealt differently with men after the flood too for He swore that never again would He send the flood to destroy all life but until the end of the world He is pledged to send seed time and harvest. We see His rainbow.

God has set aside a day when He will judge the living and the dead. We are told to be patient and await that day. In this epoch God extends His grace to ALL men ... that they might repent.
 
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