Free Will - A More Exhaustive Look

Thank you. You have helped me find a couple more passages that show that God is the author of our Faith which extends beyond our own choice. Thanks again.

The Lord wanted to gather them, but they would not.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Yes. I acknowledge these passages (and there are many, many more). Do you acknowledge the passages that show why Israel could not respond?

"Could not" was preceded by "Would not".

What do these verses mean to you?

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

Paul was quoting Isa 29:10 and/or Deut 29:4.

Would not or could not?

Could not, because they were placed into a "deep sleep" by God Himself. Do you accept this Scripture or will you deny it by ignoring and not responding?

You have not asked yourself two critical questions: (1) Does God make arbitrary decisions like some people? and (2) Does God give sinners every opportunity to repent before He hardens their hearts?

Unbelieving Jews during the time of Christ on earth had DAILY opportunities to see Him in action and hear His words from God. But they willfully chose to reject Him. Christ probably did miracles every day, since John tells us that not everything He did was recorded. Yet the naysayers refused to repent and believe on Him. That began while John was baptizing Israel, and John even told them the truth to their faces (Mt 3:7-10) and told them to repent:
7 But when he [John] saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Then Jesus told the Parable of the Fig Tree (a symbol of the nation of Israel) to remind us that God gave Israel three and a half years to repent, but they would not. Therefore in the end they could not.

LUKE 13: JESUS TELLS ISRAEL TO REPENT
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. 7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? 8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: 9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

GOD DOES NOT ARBITRARILY SEND SINNERS TO HELL. LEARN A LESSON FROM THE FIG TREE.

I read everything you wrote, as you are more intelligent than most here. However, you ignored the passages that I presented, just as I questioned if you would. Therefore, there isn't much reason to continue in this discussion. Yes, I am quick to discontinue these forms of one-sided conversations. And no, I am not happy about it. I rather prefer actual dialog.

2 Corinthians 3:12-16 NKJV - "Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech-- unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away."

Isn't there anyone who understands the principle found in the Veil of Moses?

In the timeline, chronological order, we find that God is having David recount events from the past, and no doubt the below even was truly remarkable (as God controlled the thoughts of the Egyptians to willingly offer up their wealth to the hated Jews.) Think about that: would you give up your wealth and riches to anyone that you hate? No . . . this goes against the ideas of this world. We give to those who we love; not those who we hate.

Psalm 105:37-38 KJV - "He brought them forth also with silver and gold: and there was not one feeble person among their tribes. Egypt was glad when they departed: for the fear of them fell upon them."

And so here we are, reading once again about the incredible and utter Power of God, in that He caused fear to be cast upon the enemies of Israel. Think about that: In just an instant, an entire Nation was forced to turn against Israel, which was against the people of Egypt's will. But incredibly, if you could have asked those of Egypt if they chose their hatred for Israel, they would likely have provided a legitimate reason, or perhaps not. But the Truth is, is that if God had not predisposed their hearts against Israel, and at least in this instance, Egypt would not have willingly given up their silver, gold, and fine linens (plundered in broad daylight and against their own will).

Throughout the Old Testament, we read of this remarkable ability of God to control the way large groups of people think and behave. So again, shouldn't we question whether or not we are under a similar form of Mind Control? How do you Truly know that what you think and feel is coming from you . . . your own mind?

Rom 08:09 . . . N L T: – “But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all).”

Because they would not…they didn’t want to.

Paul quoted Isa 29:10 and Deut 29:4 because they are important if a person is to understand the True Gospel.

Isaiah 29:10 NLT - 10 For the LORD has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep. He has closed the eyes of your prophets and visionaries.

Deuteronomy 29:4 NLT - 4 But to this day the LORD has not given you minds that understand, nor eyes that see, nor ears that hear!

Romans 11:8-9 NLT - "As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear." 9 Likewise, David said, "Let their bountiful table become a snare, a trap that makes them think all is well. Let their blessings cause them to stumble, and let them get what they deserve."

Do you ALSO reject these Scriptures? Do you ALSO reject the True Gospel?

No one needs to understand Isaiah nor Deuteronomy to understand the “true” gospel. Btw, God closed their minds because they first rejected his word.

Actually not even the issue. Of course God planned the way He would save individuals, and it wasn't by unconditional election.

God's plan for the salvation of man is very simple.

Salvation is offered to everyone. Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

So, God offers salvation to everyone.
And He saves those who believe.

I cannot imagine how any Calvinist would argue against this. But they do.

Man will isnt free from Gods Will, nor is it free from its sinful heart and nature. By Nature God describes our will here Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Our will by nature fulfills the desires of the flesh and the mind, which walks according to the course of this world.

The word desires in Eph 2:3 is the greek word thelēma :

what one wishes or has determined shall be done

1. will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure

Jesus told some natural men this Jn 8:44


Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There will isnt free, Jesus said there will will do the lusts of their father, they have no choice in the matter !

So the freewill of man is a myth that has deceived its ten thousands !

Red herring ALERT!! No one has said it was. Stop arguing a false issue.

Again, the words "free will" only mean that any human being is free to make their own decisions from available options.

So don't give me the nonsense about "if you had free will, why can't you "will" the weather to change?" It is about options that ARE available to you.

Like responding to the gospel promise of salvation through faith.

Getting deeper into the book I had mentioned some time back, regarding a debate about Calvinsim.

It's truly amazing how Calvinists twist the word and argue things that are simply bonkers and attribute that to non-Calvinists.

Perhaps they are not yet done reforming?

Okie doke.

Thank you! Scripture is clear that until a person has been Redeemed of the Adamic Curse, "they" are held captive by the Devil to do his will. Who's will? The individual person's will? No, the Devil's will. No one can be free of doing the Devil's will until they have been freed from his captivity. And even then, once a person is set free from doing the will of the Devil, they will be transformed and learn to do the Will of God the Father. Scripture is crystal clear on this matter:

2 Timothy 2:24-26 CSB - "The Lord's servant must not quarrel, but must be gentle to everyone, able to teach, and patient, 25 instructing his opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth. 26 Then they may come to their senses and escape the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will."

It is important to note that no one can be freed of the Devil until they have been GRANTED the ability to repent. In other words, our hearts are changed SO THAT a person can repent. Once a person is enabled, they have been set free of the Devil, now enabled to do the Will of God.

Romans 8:9 NLT - "But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)"

And why would a person no longer be controlled by their Sinful Nature? Because a True Christian has had that Evil Nature cut away and permanently removed.

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

This is the point of the entire Bible . . . this is the Purpose of Christ! The reason why Jesus came to earth is to give sight to the Spiritually blind; to give ears to the Spiritually deaf:

John 9:39 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind."

And so, we now understand why the majority do not understand these things . . . it is because they have yet to be given eyes to see nor ears to hear. And this is why I am quick to depart from aggressive conversation, for conversation with people who cannot see nor can they hear . . . it is an unending nightmare of psychological babble.

Tanakh (Verse 10): "I am dumb, I do not speak up, for it is your doing."

Isn't it clear that David is admitting that the Lord is so utterly Powerful that He is able to determine when David speaks, not to mention that He controls what David says? Is this happening to you? Are you being changed from within to the degree that you have such little control over your lives that you're unable to speak, simply out of self-defense? Have we become mute, like David? Have we become mute like Christ?

1 Peter 2:23 NIV - "When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly."

And when you feel that you have entrusted yourself to the Lord, are you sure that you're the one choosing to do such a thing? Prior to a Holy Transformation, we likely didn't possess this form of self-control. And if so, where did it come from? Did this sense of self-control come from God and His controlling Spirit?

Romans 8:9 NLT - "But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)"

If we are controlled by the Holy Spirit, and when we make decisions, are we controlling ourselves or is it actually the Holy Spirit who has taught us to become who we are and behave as we do? I would dare say that if we were the ones making such remarkable decisions that we would have something to rightfully boast about. But Paul didn't see things that way, did he . . .

Romans 3:27 NLT - "Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith."

Ephesians 2:8 NLT - "God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God."

2 tim

Thats the New Birth, no man is set free until they are born again, and given the gift of repentance through the New Birth.

I write of it all the time, which is that I wish that everyone would read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order. For in by doing so, the Story of God, which IS the Gospel, is so much more clearly understood. Imagine reading "your" favorite book out of order. How can "you" possibly understand the purposes and intentions of the book if read out of order? Impossible. When I read the Bible in this way (multiple times), the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ became incredibly obvious.

Unfortunately, not one person has taken me up on this suggestion.

John 9:39 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind."

Spiritual Blindness . . . it is the single-most unbelievable thing that I have experienced in this world. To see it happen at a global level is just shocking. And this is what it means to be a stranger in a foreign land. There are only a few that have been given eyes to see, and ears to hear.