"Not Physically Attracted Enough" - Vs - "Friendship that Catches Fire"

"Not Physically Attracted Enough" - Vs - "Friendship that Catches Fire"

I recently started a relationship with a good christian woman who gave me her contact info. We've communicated via text and have gotten to know each other for a few months. We went out on two dates. (I know they we dates, cause I paid for them. )

I definitely like her as a person, and a friend, although we didn't have such a fun time that I'm inspired to hangout with her again. The physical attraction isn't there for me, so I decided I should stop asking her out... beyond friendly chats.

Although I didn't find her physically attractive upfront, I didn't want to jump to conclusions, and wanted to spend some time with her to see if that might change. I would assume people do that, especially women, because they get asked out. What's your experience? What's your advice?


What's your thoughts on "dating" people you're not physically attracted to?

1. It was suggested to me that I go out with, and get to know women, I'm not immediately physically attracted to because a physical attraction -- or some other kind of attraction -- might occur in the future. What's your thoughts on that? Has it ever happened to you?


I've heard a number of christian speakers talk about: "Love is when friendship catches fire!"

When I hear these messages, I roll my eyes. I'd like to go up front and ask them, "Is this YOUR personal experience? When you met your wife, did you first think she was ugly as sin, but then after you knew her for a while, then BAM you fell in love, and now you can't keep your hands off her?"

It's one thing to become particularly physically attracted someone after you've known them for a while... like if you're part of the same group or organization; it's another thing to date someone you definitely do not find physically attractive, and then that changes. I think former happens sometimes, but I doubt the latter does.

That is to say: I think there may be someone you didn't really "think about" as 'your type', or someone you didn't particularly find attractive at first, or someone who annoyed you, and then after you got to know them overtime you then "noticed" they WERE particularly attractive to you. That's more like going from "neutral", "absent minded", or annoyed to physically attracted... as opposed to 'definitely not physically attracted' to a "friendship catching on fire".

There's also the risk of leading someone on when it's 99% assured romantic love is not going to happen.

2. Different for Women?
Experientially, I've found the situation is generally different for women. My mother told me she went out with guys she didn't find physically attractive just go out and have some fun. When the guys asked her about it, she'd have to admit she was using them (though she didn't describe that way, she acknowledged it was wrong and cruel). Also, since men ask out women, a woman may not have given it (him) much thought and wants to be open-minded about it, or doesn't want to hurt the man's feelings, or she's just 'hedging her bets'... that is, she wants to keep some "second choices" and "better-than-nothing choices" in play while she's waiting to see if her Prince ever arrives. Additionally, before women were welcomed in the workplace, some women dated and married based mostly on the 'life the husband could provide her' rather than if she was physically attracted to him. I suppose if she loves and stays faithfully married to him, it's fine. Thoughts?

wot

didnt you know that its the men who hide chick magnets on their bodies and that is how they attract the women. It doesnt work the other way round.

If a woman tries using attracting magnetic powers its usually to divest a mans wallet of his gold. He will suddenly find himself mysteriously drawn to her and all his money will somehow disappear into a hedge.

There has to be something that appeals to you about the person. I would think that if it takes more than 2 dates to try and find something you're attracted to, and that could be anything that sparks your attention, then it's not there. It doesn't have to be looks, but a feeling like you know that you know that you know, something clicked between you two.

I cant speak for anyone else.... and i haven't dated.... but I have had major crushes in the past on people that I didnt find attractive at first, but after getting to know them and grow our friendship.... they were very attractive to me. Their physical looks didnt change...my thoughts on them did. So it is possible.

Hi Sculpt!

Great thread.

As Pipp said, I can only speak for myself, but when I was younger, for some reason, when I would meet a guy, my brain was quick to "sort" him as "possible boyfriend" or "possible friend." While looks could have something to do with it (I think every human being on earth wants to be with someone they find attractive,) it was often more about some kind of "spark" they had -- quick wit, intelligence, kindness, etc.

As I've gotten older, I'm finding now that I am most often attracted to integrity and life experience. Sure, looks get thrown in there somewhere but like Pippy said, I now find them to be secondary, because character levels up a person's attractiveness exponentially.

I do think economics can also have something to do with it. I worked in a poor, "ghetto-minded" area for a long time, and the women there were very much of the "at least I'll get a free dinner" mindset, even if they weren't attracted to the guy. I despised that, and it's part of why I have no qualms over paying for myself and/or for both myself and the guy if I ask him out, or depending how the date goes (if he talks about women using him for money, I'll be sure to pay for him, too, just to show that all women aren't like that.)

I'm happy to report that all the women I'm friends with now pay their own way and don't believe in using men.

For whatever reason, I've also been blessed to have long-term friendships in my life that allowed me to see how my guy friends react to life as it happen and how we all grow and change over time. I eventually became the exact opposite of what I used to be, and I'm pretty sure that if I do get married, it's going to be to a guy I've known for a long time and have seen handle a wide range of trials and problems.

I have a guy friend whom I've known for about 20 years and it's only by the grace of God that our friendship ever survived! The first 5 years at least, we had enough in common to talk, but somehow always wound up arguing over how certain situations should be handled. Our fights were so fierce that we'd stop talking for a while, but somehow always wound up going back for round 2 (or 32, lol,) and would eventually respect and support the other's decision. These days we joke that we're not sure if we could argue if we tried, because now we know each other so well, we can just about predict what the other will say or do, and why.

We've never been in a situation to date (too many life differences right now, like distance and family situations,) but if I do find someone, I'm sure it will also take a very long time for us to get to know each other. I've just found that going through time with someone is invaluable and irreplaceable, but nowadays, no one has any time to spare. This is why I left the dating sites years ago -- I was pretty sure I'd never find someone else who also wants to take their time and is no longer in a rush.

Looks are a very tricky thing. I would often hear on the Christian dating sites, "God made men visual (therefore I must have only the most beautiful woman possible!)" but my reply is always, "Just because God made men visual, does that mean He made women blind?"

Some of the most vicious fights I have seen in my years as a Christian are between Christian women who are trying to compete for what is seen as a prized Christian man. I don't know if Christian men are like this or if they compete over beautiful woman, but if a good-looking single guy was in church, it was like blood in a shark tank, or a zombie movie where people trip the person next to them just so they could get ahead of the pack.

It was partially because of this that I never went after the "good-looking" guys, but it also helps that I'm a nerd and have never attracted that type anyway, lol. I tend to find quirks to be very attractive (maybe a larger nose, slightly crooked teeth -- often something a person was made fun of for -- I find attractive) so I guess my tastes in looks are considered to be a bit offbeat.

Looks are a funny thing. I never see it discussed in dating circles that looks will inevitably change over time. We all acknowledge it and talk about verses in the Bible that praise character over beauty, but yet everyone says they could never be with someone they weren't physically attracted to. So what happens when those looks change for the worse, or are lost?

The issue I never see talked about is that this person they find to be so beautiful or handsome is going to age. At the senior communities I've spent a lot of time around, you realize just how much people have changed over time. What if the woman gains 30 pounds from having the couple's kids and it never goes away? What if the husband loses all his hair, collapses on the couch every night after work with a bag of Cheetos, and winds up looking like he's 8 months pregnant himself?

I often wonder if our physical sight is also one of our biggest spiritual hindrances, because every single person says they could never marry someone they don't find handsome or beautiful.

If that person's looks change, what happens if you get married and then no longer find your spouse to be physically attractive over time? I guess there's this assumption that something magical happens in marriage that makes you adore and want to stay with that person and will magically keep them beautiful/handsome forever.

But judging from all the instances of divorce within the church, that just isn't true, and there are a plethora of contributing factors, no can argue that in some cases, the loss of looks/attractiveness is one of them.

So what does that say for the health of a marriage when everyone expects to start out (and somehow indefinitely stay) attracted to a human being who will get age spots, wrinkles, gain weight, and lose their hair/teeth over time?



I don't have any good answers. I don't know what the balance is, or should be, between what we find attractive enough to commit to today when we logically know that looks change over time.

I don't think there is any rhyme or reason, or logic, to this issue. I have had big crushes on both attractive guys (drawn to them mostly based on looks) and on guys whom others would not believe were too attractive (but I found them attractive). My attractiveness to one boy did grow from middle to high school as he grew less awkward and more attractive. A few guys I found attractive in the beginning but later I did not find them attractive (their faults became too obvious to me). There are a few guys who did not particularly stand out or I found a bit unattractive but that changed. Unfortunately, there are also a couple of guys whom I never was physically attracted to (even though I wanted to) despite us bonding closer in friendship.

What is attractive?

I've known some women who all the guys seemed to think were "hott" but I disliked their nasty attitude. I've known some women who all the guys ignored as being "not hott" (don't know why that extra "t" matters, but it does) but I thought they were beautiful.

In Southern parlance:
You can be as ugly as homemade sin and dumb as dirt, but if you got that one thing that somebody thinks is important to have you can be prettier than a chocolate milkshake to that person.

Back when I was single and dating....
And even in college....a Long long time ago in a land far far away.

I figured out quick that dating "barbie" was usually going to be a disaster.

Because in my psych class I learned that familiarity breeds contempt and no matter what everyone turns into wrinkled Grey old people. (Like I am today)

And as I paid attention to those people who are married successfully the best marriages had a type of naked honesty and no separation between them. Talking to one was like talking to the other.

Some marriages are more successful than others. And some had their relationship with God as a centerpiece of their relationship and others didn't.

We, as Christians, want both things at the same time. It's unique and special. And it isn't going to be common or average or Even normal. Meaning rare, and treasured. Not gonna happen for everyone. And taking a very long time to find. It's that age old question: "The Lady or The Tiger?" Which door do you tell to open? Which is she?

I'm surrounded by people who don't have what I have as a relationship with my wife. They look at me oddly at times. Like when I say that I wanted to have lunch or breakfast with my wife before I meet up. Even though we have been in quarantine for two years.

But it's the truth...I like as well as love my wife. She isn't an accessory to be worked around. Her life is my life. My life is her life. Who do you want to be in 20 years? Why?

As Mrs. DB and I go through adventures together in life it is fun....the discovery and learning...we are having fun. She is responsible for me and I am responsible for her. All giving all the time. Difficult to obtain for today's self-absorbed world.

That's the attraction. That's the goal. Barbie doesn't get excited watching her husband change brakes on his truck. Or care if he has company while doing it.
She gets excited when everyone finds her attractive.
Barbie doesn't care about discussing scriptures and looking at the various things that they teach. She might politely listen...but doesn't add much to the conversation.

But get Barbie talking about possessions, makeup, hair, clothes, workout or dieting routines and she pops up like a jack in the box playing music. Uggghhhh.

No thanks....I'll keep the path less traveled.

One thing I've learned about people is, what you think is important reveals a lot more about you than it reveals about the thing you think is important. And the more a person talks about that thing he thinks is important, the more he reveals about himself.

This has some interesting applications:

If a girl does express an interest in me, my first priority is figuring out why. The reason she is interested in me tells me a lot about her.

If I don't have the qualities that make a girl interested in me, that is a GOOD thing! I don't want that kind of girl.

Also, for all you girls who have been told by a man, "You'd be pretty if you did your hair this way" or "I'd go out with you if you'd lose a few pounds," be grateful. You just dodged a bullet. No way you want a man like that hanging around.

Trophy wives are just that....a trophy you keep around until they aren't shiny. Then you toss them away and get a shiny one again.
Like so much furniture that once had nice upholstery....nice and comfortable and you get used to it until a nice new couch comes along...and then you notice all the wear spots and flattening stuffing in your old couch.

Depth of character doesn't come without scars or hard, difficult work. The most annoying kind. But that doesn't mean that two wounded souls can make a relationship either....it's a ward in a hospital for wounded souls.

never dated an ugly girl. but as i get lonelier i might need to lower my standards

Thanks for the advice. I agree, two dates is probably enough to determine if there's something there to pursue a romantic relationship. And that was my question, and the advice I was asking for. I don't know how long that takes, I've never experienced it... but of course I welcome it with open arms.

Her and I are leaving things unsaid at this point. She's very sharp, so I thinks she thinks it's likely I don't want a romantic relationship, but she hasn't asked. I think we both appreciate being text friends.

If I keep texting, would you say it's her responsibility to ask if I want a romantic relationship? Or is it on me? I haven't made romantic suggestions or gestures to her in text or in person. That being the case, I figure she would ask if she wanted/needed to know. It's not a discussion I would hit someone with, as I don't think it's pleasant.

That's good to know. I'll continue to try to get to know women of good character and other attractive traits and hope for the blessing of physical attraction.

Personally, I think if anyone I know would bother to ask; I'd probably be willing to spend one dinner with any guy I knew and didn't find objectionable for some reason. I'm not as open with random strangers who come across as desperate enough to ask anyone they meet.

Beyond that, I think physical looks are a terrible primary consideration for a decision as important as who to spend the rest of your life with, so I won't be making a final decision based on that. But I think I have to admit that a better looking guy does spark my curiosity to get to know him a little more.

Other than that, the guy just has to be good looking enough that I can stand to look at him (which is a pretty low bar). But his character and integrity have to shine like the stars and he just has to be patient enough for me to do that stargazing.

most people are good looking when they are young
they dont stay like that though unless they have some help

I dont know about Barbie I think anyone who looks like that is high maintenance because of the cost of having a new outfit everyday, the hair, nails, shows, jewellery, gym, hair removal, spa appointments, dental work, diet regime etc etc.

same for men, except its the cost of all their new toys (jet ski, computer, car, yacht, whatever) that they have to constantly update and maintain

A lot of people dont seem to understand that to look good, it requires DAILY maintenance and care. Its not inherent that people look pretty or beautiful on the outside. Most people are diamonds in the rough.

as for friendship catching fire
I dont undertsand that, what do you mean

You need to focus on spiritual terms because its very tiring for women to contantly have men go on and on and on about their looks, as if its all that matters. Even supermodels get absolutely sick of being judged in this manner.

frendship isnt something you burn

Friendship is something that grows, like a seed that you nurture and care for.

Thanks! Appreciate that. I think there's a big group of people most of us would consider dating, based on looks, that likely grows the older we get. And then there's criteria that we use to exclude them based on character and situations -- and that list likely grows as we get older. For example, if they aren't christians, live too far away, appear to be despicable in some way, or to a lesser extent just have nothing in common with, or just can't generate any rapport with.

Personality most certainly animates someone to be more attractive. No question.

You mean in a rush to marry, or in a rush to date, as in become romantically involved in a more obvious way?

Yeah, I don't know how long it takes before I would pop the question or become romantically involved. The former I'm sure that will vary, or rather correspond based on the specific situation. I know many say when they are sure, that's it. Of course many recommend a minimum of 6 months.

Regarding rushing in romantically... I'd say that also varies the much the same way. I think attraction plays a big role in that... whatever the flavor of the attraction. Perhaps wiser folks take their time on that. One pays the price for failure... and there's debate if romance clouds the mind.

LOL That (in bold) would be an awfully unattractive thing for a guy to write in their profile (or express) on a christian dating site.

Like most, I've dated girls I thought were attractive that my sister told me she thought "wasn't very cute". Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, individually. Obviously in larger samples where people are asked to rate a set of faces, there are consistent ratings on attractiveness. I'm not looking for a woman who is rated very attractive; rather I'd like it if I thought she was very attractive, and every other man thought she wasn't attractive.

Regarding that spouse's appearance changes over time... Beyond the fact I think the vast majority of people know that, I think once it's established two people are physically attached, that is, they are attracted to each other with a big mix of all the ways people are attracted to their spouse, it's a deep multi-facetted core of attraction, where a little weight, age, loss of hair, grey, etc, just don't make any difference. I think it's akin to when I was dating this one lady, when she'd come over with no makeup, sweats, blemishes, etc, I didn't see them, it made no matter to me. Like when I don't notice what people are wearing, or a change in hair style.

Not that I've had my pulse on the primary reason why folks are divorcing over the last 20 years, but I would assume physical attractiveness is not the primary reason in the vast majority. I think I read you correctly that you're saying it's one of the reasons, and not the primary reason for the vast majority. However, if you're aware it is, I'd find that fascinating (as a social scientist) and ask you to provide the source so I can check it out.

Honestly, I hate to look at divorce. I just assume it's primarily a breakdown of the relationship for lots of reasons. I guess it'd be good to know the pitfalls to help prevent it. But I think it's one of those where the solution to work on having a healthy relationship every day, but also being aware of danger signs. I think people are aware, before you marry, you need to check into addictions, like drugs and gambling. What checks can one make for infidelity?

Ive heard a number of christian speakers talk about how love (a love relationship between a man and a woman) is when a "friendship catches fire"... "catches fire" means becomes romantic and/or they become physically attracted to each other.

My aunt gave me a cassette tape of one of these presentations once.

They are suggesting the "best love relationship", or the "best way to find a spouse", is when you become friends first, and then somewhere along the line, you discover you're physically attracted to each other and begin a romantic relationship.

...Or at least that's the way they make it sound. I like to poke a little fun at it. The message sounds like it's suggesting attraction must not be allowed to act as an initial step to marriage. As if they can't just say, if there's someone you're attracted to, try to become friends, because if you can't be friends, you're relationship isn't likely to survive.

Thank you, you are right, we need to focus on spiritual matters, and the spiritual dimensions of any relationship we have.

For the other part... are you saying women get very tired of the man they love telling them how beautiful they are? Is it OK for their father to tell them they are beautiful? Or do you mean it's tiring if it's any man besides their husband?
By the way, I happen to agree with you that no man, except for their husband, should say anything about their appearance. I tend to think fathers shouldn't praise their daughters for being beautiful, unless they make it clear they mean they're precious intrinsically, and/or are praising their loveliness and beauty on the inside. Otherwise, I think they are putting an unhealthy focus on their daughters' outer appearance.

Not that it really matters anymore (I'm perfectly content being single), but I've always been in the "friendship catches fire" camp.

Shortly before I got saved, I worked for a telecommunications company. I was in my late twenties back then, and a girl in her lower twenties that worked with me REALLY liked me. In fact, she made a couple of very aggressive (but not in a bad way) advances towards me. I'll tell you one of them because it's kind of funny. I was driving her home from some work party, and she basically grabbed me and kissed me when we were stopped at a red light. It was about 2:00 a.m. Well, it was apparently one hell of a kiss because a police officer eventually shined his flashlight in my window while telling me/us that we had been stopped at that light while it had changed 4 times already. lol.

She was actually very nice, but I liked someone else at that time (that never even got started). Her looks were slightly above average, and my own looks have only been average for my entire life. Anyhow, I mentioned all of that to simply say this:

I've thought about that girl many times over the years. We can't turn back time, but she might have been a missed opportunity for me. Again, she was really nice, and she really liked me. In fact, I was thinking about her just a few days ago, and it's been about 33 years since I last saw or heard from her.

Anyhow, I've never really been attracted to women who are very good-looking. I've always liked more of the "plain Jane" type with a personality. Looks will ultimately fade, and character is what is of the most importance.

Just my two cents worth.