Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

I’ll break the passage down to the best of my understanding then it’s between you and God what you want to believe.

Romans 6:4,5 KJV
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:”

Holy Spirit baptism doesn’t involve physical death or spiritual death because prior to that baptism the person was already dead in their trespasses. Therefore this must be referring to a literal water immersion which is the likeness of His death in the sense when we go below the water it’s like being buried.

“that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Christ’s body was literally resurrected. Meaning He died and His physical body was brought back to life. When we are are baptized we don’t literally become resurrected because that would involve dying first. That means this is for a future literal resurrection like Christ’s resurrection. There’s no comparison between Christ’s resurrection and a symbolic resurrection. Therefore this verse must be literal.

“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:”

Legwork here is likeness. Christ didn’t die spiritually or was born again during His water baptism or His Spirit baptism because He’s perfect sinless God. He was not resurrected during His baptism either. This passage is for the church, for repentant sinners, who have been water baptized and will therefore for share in the likeness of His resurrection which was a literally bodily raising from the dead.

There’s no other rational way to understand this passage unless it’s literal and no symbolic.

I don’t want to just repeat what I said in a different post so I kindly refer you to post #41.

https://christianchat.com/threads/is-baptism-necessary-for-salvation.206179/post-4874356

Well, that’s the thing about books. They have a narrative, a plot, and a conclusion. They often meander a bit here and there, going to various subjects, connecting various dots. They aren’t exhaustive theological breakdowns of single subjects. That just isn’t how the Bible is written unfortunately, though I would prefer it if it were.

Romans 6:3-5 fits perfectly with my post in an earlier thread. When a passage about baptism makes perfect sense without assuming the medium is water, should we read water into it? I keep thinking about this:

“Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭30:5-6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/pro.30.5-6.NKJV

So, if a passage says baptized into Christ, isn’t that simply immersed into Christ. Aren’t we adding to the word if we assume it means immersed into water into Christ. Water isn’t actually mentioned and a medium for immersion is given.

Doesn’t the verse below describe our immersion into Christ.

“In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/eph.1.13.NKJV

If we were sealed in him when we believed by the Holy Spirit doesn’t that represent an immersion or baptism into Christ. We see the same thing here:

“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭12:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/1co.12.13.NKJV

and here:

“For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/gal.3.27.NKJV

and here:

“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/rom.6.3-5.NKJV


Immersed into Christ.

it does not help you

It says we were BAPTIZED (immersed or placed into) Christ. and BAPTIZED (immersed or placed into) His death

Your pastor can not place you into Christ or his death

the problem is people want to make baptism some religious word. It is merely an action word. Something is placed into something else.

in the ancient greek. the word baptism was an action word. It is a derivative of the Greek word bapto which means to dip

when the bible says we are baptized in water. Thats what it means, we are immersed in water

when it says we are baptized into Christ. it does not mean we are baptized in water. It means we are baptized into Christ.

many in the church has done to baptism what the jew did with circumcision. Made it a part of the gospel. It is not a part of the gospel. water baptism will nto save you. and has no part in nes salvation.

amen wonderful post brother

faith is a term we don’t understand on a mass scale in the church. We know we are saved by faith , but we’ve made faith into the reason we don’t need to hear and accept and obey what the lord himself said will surely save us

it’s actually the opposite faith is the reason we begin to accept and start to make it a point to do what he said will save and bless us forever

we have changed “ faith “ into something it isn’t being a reason we don’t need to hear and follow the lord. Rather than hearing and trusting that what he said is true and infallible and will save us

by faith Noah was told about the flood and instructed to build the ark he believed and so he did what God said would save him that’s faith. He had to hear Gods word of warning and blessing and believe it was true , there was a flood coming and if I build an ark I won’t drown

so he was saved by faith but this doesn’t mean he now didn’t bother doing what God said it meant now Noah believed it was true also and knew the flood was coming so he reacted and obeyed and was saved by faith

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭

if Noah had replaced building the ark with saying “ I have faith “ his faith would have left him to drown all because he refused to believe what God said would save him

it’s crazy what the hyper grace doctrine does to blind our minds to Gods word

“Believes and is baptized are saved. But you miss the rest of that verse that makes it clear.”

how does not believing and being lost , replace believing and getting baptized and being saved lol ? It does make it super clear if someone doesn’t believe the gospel they are not going to get baptized

baptism is what we do because we believe what the gospel says we believe this Jesus shed his blood for remission of our sins who believe in him

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is what we first believe Jesus died for my sins . That is this part of faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now because I believe that’s true this is the promise I get baptized for notice how baptism witnesses Jesus shedding his blood for remission

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬

those who hears the word and accepted it were gladly baptized believing it was done for remission of thier sins in Jesus name who died as atonement for our sins

this is why baptism is important and basic faith look at all the meaning it has these are just some examples I’m sure someone who doesn’t believe in baptism will explain how it does t apply but just consider what of the Bible is plainly making it’s points so we could hear and believe and know what baptism means here’s some examples

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, ( were buried in water ) we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: ( we rise from the water )

knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-6‬ ‭

note paul is making these points about how baptism connects to the church in letters meant to reach them about these things. Or this connection to Abraham and his seed which hold all the promises in Christ

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭

That’s why we’re taught about “an inheritance “ we get baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins and we take his name upon our soul and become one in his death burial and resurrection. Through baptism according to the Bible anyways that’s just two example of what the scripture explains baptism means for us who partake

if you don’t believe something why would you then do it ? But if you hear and believe of course your going to do it

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again getting baptized is something you do because you hear what God said it’s for and believe . If you don’t believe your not going to act belief leads to acting in faith believe and get baptized or don’t believe ( of course not gonna be baptized )

the logic we use when faced with overwhelming scripture stating plainly these thkngs , is a hindrance To us

the Bible teaches us exactly what baptism means and why it’s important it’s up to us to accept it or reject it if we believe the Bible the truth is baptism os a basic founding principle of the gospel the first act of faith one does in Christ

Baptism is for saved people.

1 Peter 3:20,21
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Peter actually said the opposite of what you said. He said the great flood symbolizes the literal water that also now saves by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Why is it mentioned some spots then not mentioned other spots? That’s really a good question.

That is hardly the issue since Christ COMMANDED Christian baptism for believers after His resurrection and before His ascension.

The issue before us is the false and ABSURD notion that water baptism guarantees resurrection (and for some guarantees salvation)! Just because some Corinthians were baptizing for their dead relatives or friends does not mean that that is a Christian doctrine. Had Paul also told us that that practice was nonsensical it would have helped. But when he referred to that practice, he was simply stressing the fact of the resurrection.

Amen Resurrection requires one to have no sin “ the wages of sin is death “ this is why Jesus died for remission of sins to remit the death sentance also.

One important thing is the resurrection is spiritual the new body spiritual our flesh is already bound to death

We aren’t going to rise again like we are now physical flesh we’re moving into a spiritual existence with a spiritual body

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.


There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 44-47, 49‬

we have two stages of life we have a life made for this earth in the body of flesh and we have a spiritual living body made for after the flesh perishes.

the flesh returns to the dust and the spiritual is raised unto the lord

when we rise from death it’s going to be a translated body into the spiritual heavenly existence not remade for another life on this perishable earth

I don’t think most people really mean to add to the word of God. I mean I didn’t modify the KJV Bible, but rather my intention was to just break them to the best of my understanding. That’s just me explaining my thinking.

My perspective, if I were just sitting here reading Koine Greek, and someone wrote me a letter about getting baptized I would believe they’re talking about water immersion. Given the multitude of other verses that use the word baptized in a water immersion context this isn’t an unreasonable conclusion.

I guess we just view this differently. I view the seal as some sort of mark to identify true believers. Think of Passover.

In context water baptized is used to refer to being baptized into Christ:

3And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

Acts 19:3-5 NKJV
3And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

4Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

It’s consistent to see being baptized “into” something as being water baptized. That’s what happened in Acts 19. Why would I change it? That’s confusing. That’s why there are so many arguments about baptism.

why did Peter command they repent and get baptized and save themselves ? And as soon as they got baptized thoer spuls we’re added to the church ?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

cause and effect they were saved by faith , hearing about it and hen acting because they believed what they heard . We say we’re saved by faith but we don’t understand faith is to hear what the lord said and believe it like this

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

“preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved””

Christian’s want to believe this is true and share this everywhere. When we start out trying to make this untrue or irrelevant or change what’s there were bot acting In Faith faith needs to hear and believe what he said at that point obeying it is just a response coming from the belief of what the gospel declares

there’s no reason for us to change anything the gospel is perfect from when Jesus began preaching it

No water is mentioned in the Acts 19 passage. It has to be assumed or added. Isn’t this exactly the same as Ephesians 1:13.

“In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/eph.1.13.NKJV

And wouldn’t that be consistent with this:

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.3.11.NKJV

“I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/mrk.1.8.NKJV

“John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/luk.3.16.NKJV

baptism doesn't save you it is the first act of obedience of one who is saved. we are to believe (past tense) unto salvation and be baptized. the belief comes before the baptism. the ability to believe comes from the Holy Spirit which set the person free to be obedient to the word of the Lord Jesus who said to be saved than be baptized.

should they need to mention water every time once baptism has been established ? To say well they didn’t mention water specifically here sonthis reference to baptism is different isn’t a sound argument

See the key is this The conversion of gentiles note how it’s similar to pentocost when the Jews received the baptism of holy ghost

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is not different in any way from what’s been established from John forward only now Jesus name is revealed and what he said he would do die for sin and rose again he’s done now the message is the exact same regarding baptism in water for remission of sins because we believe in the gospel message of Jesus dying for our sins

it’s what we do , because we believe what he did d we accept what he said to do in faith. Things like baptism , communion these are purely faith that’s the sole reason and benefit we partake of baptism for remission of sins or communion with the body and blood of Jesus

The value immense and immeasurable value they have is the one who can save us said this is what to do and be saved ,

“put your trust in me and accept what I’m saying I am the way truth and life there’s no other way learn from me and apply what you learn to life hear and keep my ways and I will give you everlasting life in my kingdom of eternal glory “ says our lord and living savior Jesus Christ


We have to get away from not accepting what’s plainly before us and converting our belief to what is there the Bible is meant to give us the understanding of how to have eternal life with our creator all we have to do is hear what he’s really telling us is important and to do and repent of doing and we’re home free but we can’t get there by rebelling against what he said gives us these thkngs

remission of sins the gospel claims is received because you believe in Jesus and his word , getting baptized in his name for remission of sins is something he taught us to do and he also showed us the example of Gods children getting baptized when he did though he needed no remission it’s one more thing that makes us one with Jesus

Saved by faith means “to act in our faith saves us “ getting baptized in water is something we do based on God saying in the new testsment baptism on his name remits sin and gives us a fresh beginning free of condemnation and sins dominion

did the Thief on the Cross with Jesus ever get water baptized? will he remain in Paradise but never be resurrected?

to all the people who demand water baptism is required. You do realise your condemning every OT believer who was not baptized. Only a priest was baptized in the OT, in a ceremony when they are being anointed as priests. As God said, Wash them in the jordan.. They were basically baptized.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.😊💕