Next Big Debate, Obergefell v. Hodges, Gay Marriage

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How should we judge gay marriage?

  • Should the subject go back to the state?

  • Should it be outlawed nationwide?

  • Should it be legal as a human right?


Results are only viewable after voting.
Jul 9, 2022
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#81
Not "my will". The collective will of the people. There is no way a Biblical definition of marriage can get past the establishment clause.
The heck are you talking about?
Are you saying I can't have a biblical marriage if I don't get approval of the US Senate??
I will otherwise cheat on my spouse, and disrespect my children, and live a drunken life off the efforts of my lady, because Chuck Schumer hasn't voted on My Marriage choices?
 
Jul 9, 2022
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#82
=
Pilgrims settled America....except nobody calls pilgrims that anymore....we call them Journeyman Missionaries. People moving to a foreign land with the express intention of proselytizing the indigenous population.
You Might, but they fled to get away from oppression, NOT to proselytize. Very nice lie.
 
Jul 9, 2022
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#83
We could spend all day on hyperbole and conjecture. I thought we were discussing US law as it is.

In the kingdom of God, homosexuality is a demonic perversion. In the US it is state of being protected by law.
It is not a power of The State nor The Federal in the first place, it is a void and moot topic.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#84
Umm. In case you didn’t know, it was absurd conjecture and hyperbole to think two guys could marry not too dang long ago.

Now what would prevent two brothers from “marrying”?
No one wants to answer that. If the court can just redefine legal definitions to fit their opinion and thus changing the law then why not pedo equality? Or marry their dog? Or polygamy? Or maybe we should let that woman marry her model airplane she so loves.

Woman who is sexually attracted to planes wants to marry toy Boeing
https://nypost.com/2022/05/31/woman-sexually-attracted-to-planes-wants-to-marry-toy-boeing/

Woman Marries Her Dog. Cassandra White of Northern Indiana has petitioned her local government to allow her to marry her dog Brutus. White has sent several letters to gay rights activists to help her lead the march to stop discrimination against her and those like her who should get to "marry whomever they want".

White has also received support from ‘Freedom To Marry Our Pets Society” who plan to organize a protest in Washington to change definition of marriage to include pets

https://www.dividedstates.com/india...s-to-rally-support-from-gay-rights-activists/


The Supreme Court in New Jersey, United States of America, has granted two siblings, a brother and sister right to become husband and wife. The couple has been in Court for ten years and the case was finally ruled in their favour. In a 5-to-4 ruling, five judges unanimously granted the appeal by 41 years old James Banes and his biological sister Victoria Banes who is 38 years of age

https://www.naijaloaded.com.ng/content/man-can-now-marry-his-blood-sister-as-wife-supreme-court

New Yorker who wants to marry their adult biological CHILD sues to overturn laws banning incest, saying it is a matter of 'individual autonomy'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-CHILD-sues-overturn-laws-banning-incest.html

Some extreme cases of child marriage in the U.S. are: In 2010 in Idaho, a 65-year-old man married a 17-year-old girl; In Alabama, a 74-year-old man married a 14-year-old girl; In Tennessee, three 10-year-old girls married men ages 24, 25, and 31, respectively. The youngest boy to marry was an 11-year-old who married a 27-year-old woman

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/states-that-allow-child-marriage

Equality for all I suppose. Let us become like the Romans and collapse like them as well.
 
Jul 9, 2022
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#86
You may want to read the Mayflower Compact then.
Having undertaken for the Glory of God and advancement of the Christian Faith and Honour of our King and Country, a Voyage to plant the First Colony in the Northern Parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, Covenant and Combine ourselves together in a Civil Body Politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute and frame such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the Colony, unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witness whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cape Cod, the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France and Ireland the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini 1620.
(William Bradford, Of Plymouth Plantation, ed. Samuel Morison, 75-6.)​
??? ooook.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,522
1,427
113
#87
The heck are you talking about?
Are you saying I can't have a biblical marriage if I don't get approval of the US Senate??
I will otherwise cheat on my spouse, and disrespect my children, and live a drunken life off the efforts of my lady, because Chuck Schumer hasn't voted on My Marriage choices?
We're discussing LEGAL proceedings here. Try to keep up.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,522
1,427
113
#88
It is not a power of The State nor The Federal in the first place, it is a void and moot topic.
What isn't? A legal marriage under US law? Do you know how the law works?
 
Jul 9, 2022
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#90
We're discussing LEGAL proceedings here. Try to keep up.
You're discussing a fiction you've imposed over a Right that remains on The People. Just because some errant officer has decided to pretend a Code matches Our Rights, doesn't mean it can.
 
Jun 28, 2022
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#91
No one wants to answer that. If the court can just redefine legal definitions to fit their opinion and thus changing the law then why not pedo equality? Or marry their dog? Or polygamy? Or maybe we should let that woman marry her model airplane she so loves.

Woman who is sexually attracted to planes wants to marry toy Boeing
https://nypost.com/2022/05/31/woman-sexually-attracted-to-planes-wants-to-marry-toy-boeing/

Woman Marries Her Dog. Cassandra White of Northern Indiana has petitioned her local government to allow her to marry her dog Brutus. White has sent several letters to gay rights activists to help her lead the march to stop discrimination against her and those like her who should get to "marry whomever they want".

White has also received support from ‘Freedom To Marry Our Pets Society” who plan to organize a protest in Washington to change definition of marriage to include pets

https://www.dividedstates.com/india...s-to-rally-support-from-gay-rights-activists/


The Supreme Court in New Jersey, United States of America, has granted two siblings, a brother and sister right to become husband and wife. The couple has been in Court for ten years and the case was finally ruled in their favour. In a 5-to-4 ruling, five judges unanimously granted the appeal by 41 years old James Banes and his biological sister Victoria Banes who is 38 years of age

https://www.naijaloaded.com.ng/content/man-can-now-marry-his-blood-sister-as-wife-supreme-court

New Yorker who wants to marry their adult biological CHILD sues to overturn laws banning incest, saying it is a matter of 'individual autonomy'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-CHILD-sues-overturn-laws-banning-incest.html

Some extreme cases of child marriage in the U.S. are: In 2010 in Idaho, a 65-year-old man married a 17-year-old girl; In Alabama, a 74-year-old man married a 14-year-old girl; In Tennessee, three 10-year-old girls married men ages 24, 25, and 31, respectively. The youngest boy to marry was an 11-year-old who married a 27-year-old woman

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/states-that-allow-child-marriage

Equality for all I suppose. Let us become like the Romans and collapse like them as well.
I'll answer it.

You can marry your brother or sister.

Unless or until these states have or do repeal their laws that permit sibling marriage.
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona: Only if both parties are 65 or older, or one is infertile
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Connecticut
District of Columbia
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
https://optimistminds.com/what-are-the-states-where-you-can-marry-your-sibling/
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,522
1,427
113
#93
You're discussing a fiction you've imposed over a Right that remains on The People. Just because some errant officer has decided to pretend a Code matches Our Rights, doesn't mean it can.
Try to argue that in a court of law and see how it goes for you.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,522
1,427
113
#94
Do you know how the Constitution gets authority to speak?
Are you going to say "from the Creator"? or "From God"? Okay. How do you define "creator" or "God"? In this country you may have one definition of either for each citizen because THEY are self-determinate under the law. So, over 300 million definitions of "Creator" and "God".
 
Jun 28, 2022
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#95
The heck are you talking about?
Are you saying I can't have a biblical marriage if I don't get approval of the US Senate??
I will otherwise cheat on my spouse, and disrespect my children, and live a drunken life off the efforts of my lady, because Chuck Schumer hasn't voted on My Marriage choices?
You can marry in the church.

If the pastor agrees to officiate without your having a state marriage license.

If they do, you can be married in the eyes of God. But not in the eyes of the state or federal government's.

Which means you get no benefits whatever under state law or federal laws. And even companies can refuse to grant you the special privileges afforded those who are 'legally' married.

This is further evidence America's government is secular. Not Christian theocratic.

If it were a Christian Theocracy we'd still own slaves. Because that's biblical.

Interracial marriage would still be illegal. And that would mean Jews couldn't marry non-Jews. Nor could Christians marry outside the faith.
But then again, there would only be Christians living here.

And there would be no religious freedom. And anyone not Christian would be precluded from serving public office. Because unlike today there would be a religious test to enter office. Jews would not qualify. Messianics being the exception.

Christianity's history shows us that faith does not absolutely imbue morality,common sense, decency, or integrity.

It does show us our ancestors slaughtered countless people and oppressed countless cultures in the name of primacy of the faith in the shadow of its cross. Here in America and abroad.

America is not a Theocracy! Period.
That's why America is a free country. And all living here are a free people.

Our founders knew life when church and state were one.

That's why they insured the new world would not make the same mistake in governance.

Christian principles did weave into the fabric of our founding.
Christian Theocracy never did.
 
Jul 9, 2022
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#96
Try to argue that in a court of law and see how it goes for you.
lol, "We've been blundering forward so long that we have mercenaries who no longer care!"
lol. this is hardly a logical retort. you are doing a cardinal sin to the US Founders, you're taking the view that Government defines The People, because you cannot see that The People ARE NOT The Federal offices, the Federal Offices are Our Slaves.
 
Jul 9, 2022
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#97
This is further evidence America's government is secular. Not Christian theocratic.

.
Fundamental misunderstanding of the role of Citizen in his own government. You continue to separate the offices from the will of the persons who created the office as well as the persons who hold the offices for the persons who created the offices.
Governance is deeds, based on beliefs. Codes are the will of the People, in lands where The People are not Subject.

You're claiming that a mud pot isn't mud, because we glazed the outside with metallic oxides.

But I agree, you're correct under the view that DC and the Talmudist have given. We are SUBJECT to the whims of our own elected officials.
Officers are not servants, they are Betters, who must herd the Subjects under them to a better governance.

And why not? The Talmud insists you're all clay, and idolatrous clay at that, set only to be killed so your wealth can be given to a Talmudist.
 
Jul 9, 2022
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#99
If it were a Christian Theocracy we'd still own slaves. Because that's biblical.
.
lol,
Ephesians 6
because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free. 9And masters, do the same for your slaves. Give up your use of threats, because you know that He who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with Him.
Galatians 3
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

lol, "Still have slaves..."
If we're Talmudist, like Israel, and I consider non-Talmudists as clay to be bought, sold, or destroyed at will, yes. If we're Muslim, like Africa, where I can buy a Chattle slave, yes. If we are Christian... lol
 
Jul 9, 2022
441
65
28
A
You can marry in the church.

If the pastor agrees to officiate without your having a state marriage license.

If they do, you can be married in the eyes of God. But not in the eyes of the state or federal government's.

Which means you get no benefits whatever under state law or federal laws. And even companies can refuse to grant you the special privileges afforded those who are 'legally' married.

This is further evidence America's government is secular. Not Christian theocratic.

If it were a Christian Theocracy we'd still own slaves. Because that's biblical.

Interracial marriage would still be illegal. And that would mean Jews couldn't marry non-Jews. Nor could Christians marry outside the faith.
But then again, there would only be Christians living here.

And there would be no religious freedom. And anyone not Christian would be precluded from serving public office. Because unlike today there would be a religious test to enter office. Jews would not qualify. Messianics being the exception.

Christianity's history shows us that faith does not absolutely imbue morality,common sense, decency, or integrity.

It does show us our ancestors slaughtered countless people and oppressed countless cultures in the name of primacy of the faith in the shadow of its cross. Here in America and abroad.

America is not a Theocracy! Period.
That's why America is a free country. And all living here are a free people.

Our founders knew life when church and state were one.

That's why they insured the new world would not make the same mistake in governance.

Christian principles did weave into the fabric of our founding.
Christian Theocracy never did.
And one more thing,
Fact check: U.S. was not the only (or first) country to abolish slavery | Reuters
In Mexico, the institution of slavery was abolished in 1829 ( here ).
Colonial Haiti, then called Saint-Domingue, the uprising known as the Haitian Revolution (1791-1804) was the “only instance of a successful slave rebellion in world history and the founding event of the first modern black republic,” according to Time. Led by Toussaint Louverture, the Haitian revolution “constitutes a landmark in the history of abolition” ( here ). This decision was confirmed by the French government in 1794 ( here ). Further reading and commentary on this revolt, the impact of which reverberated around the region, can be found here , here and here .