The Hostility Between Men & Women

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Do people have negative, latent attitudes they're unaware of?


  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#61
if the dishes and or hair is dirty, wash them and rinse, repeat.

Got it
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#62
oH and your hands.

So much handwashing.

BUT I think the Bible prioritizes feet washing over hand washing. Dont forget to scrub between your toes.
 
Apr 15, 2022
337
101
28
USA
#63
Since the 1960s the divorce rate shows the fruit of what has been neglected, probably avoided, from the majority of pulpits. Broken families are the norm now. Lot's of changes occurred and too many pastors did not address those cultural sins, strengthening the people with the Word.
I'm sure that your point isn't the only problem, but I agree that it is a big one.

I hope the best for this new couple, that they have a good church too.
There's more than one reason. My focus here is the Wall of Hostility which is the primary, foundational, and main reason for problems in heterosexual relationships. I don't know who doesn't know that pastors are always getting things wrong. Of course you can factor them in. They're a total mess like the Pharisees of Jesus's day. I'm not focusing on them as there's just way too much to be said there. I'm focusing on the Enmity raised between man and woman in Eden: "Your desire will be for your husband (to control him), but he will [have to] rule over you (because you'll be a rebellious, crazy woman)" (Genesis 3:16). That's the issue. Everything else takes second place. Couples who don't know about the Wall so they can address or who are in denial about the Wall will feel its effects every. single. day.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,127
3,975
113
mywebsite.us
#65
I'm focusing on the Enmity raised between man and woman in Eden: "Your desire will be for your husband (to control him), but he will [have to] rule over you (because you'll be a rebellious, crazy woman)" (Genesis 3:16).
This is baloney. That is not what the verse is saying...
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,944
4,589
113
#66
I'm focusing on the Enmity raised between man and woman in Eden: "Your desire will be for your husband (to control him), but he will [have to] rule over you (because you'll be a rebellious, crazy woman)" (Genesis 3:16). That's the issue. Everything else takes second place. Couples who don't know about the Wall so they can address or who are in denial about the Wall will feel its effects every. single. day.

You see all women as being crazy, rebellious, and in need of being subdued by men?
 

melita916

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
10,418
2,660
113
#67
I’d rather focus on the Lord than the wall.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
8,255
3,420
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#68
There's more than one reason. My focus here is the Wall of Hostility which is the primary, foundational, and main reason for problems in heterosexual relationships. I don't know who doesn't know that pastors are always getting things wrong. Of course you can factor them in. They're a total mess like the Pharisees of Jesus's day. I'm not focusing on them as there's just way too much to be said there. I'm focusing on the Enmity raised between man and woman in Eden: "Your desire will be for your husband (to control him), but he will [have to] rule over you (because you'll be a rebellious, crazy woman)" (Genesis 3:16). That's the issue. Everything else takes second place. Couples who don't know about the Wall so they can address or who are in denial about the Wall will feel its effects every. single. day.
Sounds like an expanded translation as my former pastor used to say. Lol

However, it took a while before I realized that I had considered marrying a stereotype "crazy redhead". No offense to the normal red haired ladies.

There are certain ladies who like to dominate. In her case it was punch and kick.
What can a guy do when I was taught to never hit a girl. You've gotta get away. 😄🤕
 
Apr 15, 2022
337
101
28
USA
#70
This is baloney. That is not what the verse is saying...
When Jesus talked to the Jews using parables, they rarely knew what He was saying because He wasn't talking the way they were used to. But they didn't discredit what He said (the religious Jews did) just because they couldn't understand Him. You seem quick to deny that something is biblical unless it's quoted word for word from the Bible. If you were wise (ie. seeking wisdom from God (Proverbs 1:1-7)), you would be seeking more wisdom rather than shooting down something because you don't understand it. You should do some research on what Genesis 3:16 means. Start here:

As God pronounces judgment on Eve for her part of the transgression in Eden, He says, “Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you” (Genesis 3:16). This verse causes some puzzlement. It would seem that a woman desiring her husband would be a good thing, and not a curse...

The Hebrew phrase in question does not include a verb and is literally translated “toward your husband your desire.” Since this judgment is predictive, the future tense verb “will be” is added for clarity: “Your desire will be for your husband.” The most basic and straightforward understanding of this verse is that woman and man would now have ongoing conflict. In contrast to the ideal conditions in the Garden of Eden and the harmony between Adam and Eve, their relationship, from that point on, would include a power struggle. The NLT translation makes it more evident: “You will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you.”

https://www.gotquestions.org/desire-husband-rule.html.


Does God have to call the enmity between man and woman-- the desire for the woman to control the man (and vice versa)-- "the Wall" for it to be legitimate and for you to understand it? Being a skeptic doesn't automatically mean you're smart. You speak strongly as if you understand Scripture (like the Pharisees). But if you understood Scripture, you would be gentler, wiser, and less hostile. Enjoy your Bible studies. Maybe by them you'll gain eternal life. Goodbye.
 
Apr 15, 2022
337
101
28
USA
#71
Sounds like an expanded translation as my former pastor used to say. Lol

However, it took a while before I realized that I had considered marrying a stereotype "crazy redhead". No offense to the normal red haired ladies.

There are certain ladies who like to dominate. In her case it was punch and kick.
What can a guy do when I was taught to never hit a girl. You've gotta get away. 😄🤕
There's a woman who married and believes in playing the traditional housewife role. For this reason, she gets lots of hate from other women who insist that women shouldn't let men lead in relationships (this is the Wall manifesting forcefully, the ancient Jezebel spirit who awakened at the Fall and is now waking up from a hibernation that has been in effect for the better part of the the last 6,000 years).

When asked for her responses to the hateful mail and messages she gets, she's always level-headed and never reacts angrily though the messages are ugly and nasty. One of the things she tells men-- because men write in asking her where they can find women like her (she said just go throughout the entire American Midwest away from the cities)-- is that a man must never tolerate disrespect from women. I won't go into why she's right about this, but if you're with someone (if you're not married) who wants to hit you, nag you, yell at you, or disrespect you, you should leave. Period.

Many years ago, western men traded in their value for pridefulness. The exchange seemed good at first: men would feel better about themselves and their accomplishments and would throw their name and fame around. Women were left out and wanted in, thinking this pride was really value, so they began fighting to have the things men had that made men prideful. When they began to get these things, women also lost their value by trading it in for pridefulness. Now, prideful women are attacking prideful men. If/when men return and trade their pridefulness back in for their value, then they'll rise to their real position and will stop fighting women (it's embarrassing watching men compete with or fight women; it's as pitiful as watching a Navy SEAL fight with a toddler). Men have been reduced to competing with women. Most people still can't see as pathetic this is. Men tolerate crazy, delusional, argumentative, contentious, crazy women. This is because men chose pridefulness. If/when men choose value again, they will see women as they are (which is bad for women who want to hide their bad character traits and motives). With such men there will be no fighting, no expenditure of energy of any kind, etc.

I'm reminded of when King Jehu confronted Jezebel; as a man who dwelt in his value rather than in pridefulness, Jehu didn't return fire when Jezebel goaded him, trying to manipulate and trigger his masculine proneness to become angry and react. Jehuis value as a man, coolly ordered Jezebel's own personal servants-- the weakest men in the kingdom (they were all emasculated-- literally-- as her personal eunuchs)-- to kill her. And they did immediately, because though they'd served in fear under Jezebel for many years and had only just met Jehu, they recognized who the real authority there was. Jedu is what a real man looks like. Unlike the pastor(s) of the Church of Thyatira, he does not suffer or tolerate the Jezebel spirit or mindset or any kind of female craziness or madness or disruptiveness (nor does he tolerate it in men, but first he eradicates it in women where it has a much greater stronghold and also hides and lies low better). A man who knows, finds, or reclaims his God-given value (or identity) is priceless (and so for women too). There is nothing on earth as awesome as a man like that (and there are few women who won't pursue that raw masculinity). This world desperately needs such men-- especially the U.S. and the West. Do not tolerate any woman who doesn't respect you. If you do, you have already lost.
 
Apr 15, 2022
337
101
28
USA
#72
You see all women as being crazy, rebellious, and in need of being subdued by men?
Extremely disingenuous question-- the type of attitude that presupposes a person is guilty and rolls its own guilt off on another person while justifying itself. That attitude infects and kills relationships dead. One day (probably not on this earth), you'll learn. The Wall is undefeated. Goodbye.
 

TheNarrowPath

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2022
1,012
546
113
#73
Do you mean because of Eves sin this is why we have this wall of hostility?
 
Apr 15, 2022
337
101
28
USA
#74
Do you mean because of Eves sin this is why we have this wall of hostility?
No. I mean what the Bible says and shows. The Wall came because and at the time of the Fall. But the Wall, for those who aren't too politically correct to be scared,

1.) was spoken to the woman while God was 'distributing' the effects of the Curse, and the Wall

2.) is far more readily seen operating and manifesting in and through females than through males.

If you want more information on point 2 above (or point 1), I'd be happy to provide lots of it.

Some people, the fearful types, wonder why I'd wander into a topic fraught with traps and mines like this and any topic that doesn't paint females in a 100% positive light. I should tell them it's because the halo effect and the horn effect don't work on me; but it's really because (though you can't really tell when you meet most ministers and pastors) God wants to build His Church, and anyone who builds a house knows that all weaknesses have to be acknowledged, uncovered if necessary, and removed so the [building] can rise without structural weaknesses and compromises. Earthly men are so inclined to protecting women that they tend to protect everything about them-- the good, the bad, and the ugly. Jesus is not an earthly man and does not operate this way.

Solomon wrote out a lot of wisdom among four Bible books. One of the terms used to describe God's people in the OT and NT is 'vineyard'. Not coincidentally, in Song of Solomon it is written, "Catch for us the foxes— the little foxes that ruin the vineyards— for our vineyards are in bloom" (Songs 2:15). Jesus mentioned wolves-- the predators or negative things that are more apparent. But foxes don't look like predators and don't look like destroyers because they're so small and cute. Beware the halo effect-- when you think because you approve of someone, then every part of them is good or innocent. God wants all cracks, holes, and weaknesses in the structure to be exposed as He builds His Church (and they all will be). This area (the Wall, the man-hating Jezebel mindset/ideology, the carnal nature in females, etc.) is the most overlooked but one of the biggest areas of weakness in not only the churches but in all of society.

"The most basic and straightforward understanding of this [Genesis 3:17-- "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you"] is that woman and man would now have ongoing conflict. In contrast to the ideal conditions in the Garden of Eden and the harmony between Adam and Eve, their relationship, from that point on, would include a power struggle. The NLT translation makes it more evident: 'You will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you.'"

https://www.gotquestions.org/desire-husband-rule.html
 

TheNarrowPath

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2022
1,012
546
113
#75
No. I mean what the Bible says and shows. The Wall came because and at the time of the Fall. But the Wall, for those who aren't too politically correct to be scared,

1.) was spoken to the woman while God was 'distributing' the effects of the Curse, and the Wall

2.) is far more readily seen operating and manifesting in and through females than through males.

If you want more information on point 2 above (or point 1), I'd be happy to provide lots of it.

Some people, the fearful types, wonder why I'd wander into a topic fraught with traps and mines like this and any topic that doesn't paint females in a 100% positive light. I should tell them it's because the halo effect and the horn effect don't work on me; but it's really because (though you can't really tell when you meet most ministers and pastors) God wants to build His Church, and anyone who builds a house knows that all weaknesses have to be acknowledged, uncovered if necessary, and removed so the [building] can rise without structural weaknesses and compromises. Earthly men are so inclined to protecting women that they tend to protect everything about them-- the good, the bad, and the ugly. Jesus is not an earthly man and does not operate this way.

Solomon wrote out a lot of wisdom among four Bible books. One of the terms used to describe God's people in the OT and NT is 'vineyard'. Not coincidentally, in Song of Solomon it is written, "Catch for us the foxes— the little foxes that ruin the vineyards— for our vineyards are in bloom" (Songs 2:15). Jesus mentioned wolves-- the predators or negative things that are more apparent. But foxes don't look like predators and don't look like destroyers because they're so small and cute. Beware the halo effect-- when you think because you approve of someone, then every part of them is good or innocent. God wants all cracks, holes, and weaknesses in the structure to be exposed as He builds His Church (and they all will be). This area (the Wall, the man-hating Jezebel mindset/ideology, the carnal nature in females, etc.) is the most overlooked but one of the biggest areas of weakness in not only the churches but in all of society.

"The most basic and straightforward understanding of this [Genesis 3:17-- "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you"] is that woman and man would now have ongoing conflict. In contrast to the ideal conditions in the Garden of Eden and the harmony between Adam and Eve, their relationship, from that point on, would include a power struggle. The NLT translation makes it more evident: 'You will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you.'"

https://www.gotquestions.org/desire-husband-rule.html
Id never heard of the Wall of Hostility. Mind you Im only up reading my 6th book of the Bible and that is why I dont quote from it. So is the Wall of Hostility a metaphor or its in the Bible? I agree there is something between the genders and I need to learn more if I ever want to remarry. So Point 2 I agree with because I see it within me sometimes, I also see it in society a lot. Even my extended family and friends it exists. I think that when I stopped supporting modern feminism it opened my eyes to behaviours that used to look normal and deserved but are really toxic and not only distance women from men, but us from God. But I know as someone mentioned in another thread that there are male equivalent type jezabel mindsets too.
 
Apr 15, 2022
337
101
28
USA
#76
Id never heard of the Wall of Hostility. Mind you Im only up reading my 6th book of the Bible and that is why I dont quote from it. So is the Wall of Hostility a metaphor or its in the Bible? I agree there is something between the genders and I need to learn more if I ever want to remarry. So Point 2 I agree with because I see it within me sometimes, I also see it in society a lot. Even my extended family and friends it exists. I think that when I stopped supporting modern feminism it opened my eyes to behaviours that used to look normal and deserved but are really toxic and not only distance women from men, but us from God. But I know as someone mentioned in another thread that there are male equivalent type jezabel mindsets too.
You've only read six books in the Bible?

Yes, there are male Jezebels (the Bible also mentions more male witches than female witches). And while females can only have Jezebel and Eunuch spirits (two), men can have Jezebel, Eunuch, and Ahab spirits (three). This is in accordance with the Scripture: "To whom much is given, much will be required (Luke 12:48). God gave men more than He gave women (yes, it's not politically correct anywhere to say this), but the more one has, the more responsibility one gets; or the more responsibility one has, the more God gives to them. Men are responsible for the building of the whole world and the protection and managing of everything, therefore, it was necessary for God to give men more [tools] than He gave women. It's practical math; it has nothing to do with favor or value. Therefore, the person (ie. men) with greater capacity for good... is also the person (ie. men) who has greater capacity for evil. That's the way it works and is why God placed greater blame on King Ahab (who didn't overtly harm anyone) than on Queen Jezebel (who overtly harmed people all the time) as also was the case with Adam and Eve (sin entered through the man though the woman sinned first).

Marianne has a site where she has excellent articles about the Jezebel spirit in both women and men. Here are two articles:

The charismatic male Jezebel: https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/...jezebel-conquest-by-romance-and-assimilation/.

The conflict-oriented male Jezebel: https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/the-conflict-oriented-male-jezebel/.

I mentioned Jezebel as it operates and manifests in females because I like to address only one thing at a time since there are thousands of different things in play, so it wouldn't be wise to try to try to talk about all of them at once.

Yes, the Bible mentions the 'Wall of Hostility' but not in those words. The Bible rarely uses our contemporary words when talking about issues that are deeper than surface level. For instance, we talk about narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder (or NPD). The Bible talks about this 'disorder' very often, but it rarely uses one word like we do (eg. 'narcissist'). Rather, it uses words like "mocker, scoffer, insolent pride", etc. Some people in the Bible who had what we'd call NPD (ie. who were narcissists) were Pharaoh who wouldn't let Israel go, King Nebuchadnezzar, Queen Jezebel, and many of the religious leaders who pursued and persecuted Jesus and then later His apostles. DC Robertsson has a site that unfolds NPD in the Bible. He writes:

"You may have found this blog because you have a 'narcissist' in your life, or in the life of someone you care about. At first, you may not have known that you were dealing with a narcissist, but the pain and damage this selfish, arrogant, condescending, domineering person caused might have driven you to search for answers on what was going on, and on how to deal with this difficult person... In the process of trying to learn everything possible in your search for answers, you may have decided to explore what the Bible has to say on the subject... While the Bible does not specifically refer to 'narcissism' – which takes its name from Greek mythology – it does speak to the subject. "

https://biblicalperspectivesonnarcissism.com/.

In the Bible, what was written for one occasion and in one context often is also used for other occasions and other contexts. For example, when Paul talks about "the Law", he is at least 90% of the time talking about the Law of Moses because of his audience. However. There are other 'laws' (eg. laws of physics, laws of mathematics, laws of attraction, spiritual laws, man's laws, etc.) to which some of the things Paul says about the Mosaic Law can be applied. An example is here:

"[Jesus] Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father" (Ephesians 2:14-18).

All of that is talking about "the middle wall of separation" between Jews and Gentiles. However. All of that can also be applied to "the middle wall of separation" between men and women-- the wall which was raised from the Curse that was put into effect right after the Fall. So, first there was the Fall (Adam and Eve sinned), then there was the Curse (God pronounced curses on everyone due to man's sin), then there was the Wall (one of the effects of the Curse). While dealing out the effect of the Fall (ie. the Curse), God told Eve, "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in pain you shall bring forth children; your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you"(Genesis 3:16). Since all those things were curses, it means that Eve's desire being for her husband is a bad thing. The explanation, then, isn't about her romantic desire for him but her desire to control him-- literally her desire would now be to make sure he did what she wanted him to do rather than what God or he wanted to do. Before the Fall, it was opposite of this: Adam did what God and he wanted to him to do (two people), and Eve did what God, Adam, and she wanted her to do (three people). After the Fall, Eve was no longer God or Adam but only herself; moreover, she would now be inclined to try to control both God and Adam (or to steer Adam away from God). The main takeaway from this curse (the Wall as regards women) is not really about the man nearly as much as it is about God: the woman would no longer desire God's involvement in her life (practically speaking: lifestyle, etc.; this doesn't include going to church) and would have the mindset of "Girls just wanna have fun" with every concept or notion of 'responsibility' and 'accountability' being faux pas and an abomination. This is the standard thing I see when I look at heterosexual interactions, relationships, and marriages today.

Cassie Jaye, the woman in the following 15-minute video, used to be a feminist and set out to prove that the Men's Rights Movement hated women. (Men rarely hate women. On the other hand, the Wall often makes women feel hate for men. Women don't know about this Wall, but because people automatically justify their emotions and feelings these women constantly try to justify their hatred for men by blaming and tearing men down. But on listening closely to them, there are very rarely if ever any justifiable or logical reasons for their misandry. They often think men hate women (misogyny) because they hate men (misandry) and can't figure out why, so they grasp for reasons everywhere.) Cassie's experience caused the veil over her eyes (the Wall) to begin to break up enough for her to begin to see the truth. She abandoned feminism as a result.

 

TheNarrowPath

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2022
1,012
546
113
#77
You've only read six books in the Bible?
I will type in green to distinguish from your text. Yes I am a noob to Bible reading and comprehension , that is why I dont quote from the Bible. Currently reading Psalms.

Yes, there are male Jezebels (the Bible also mentions more male witches than female witches). And while females can only have Jezebel and Eunuch spirits (two), men can have Jezebel, Eunuch, and Ahab spirits (three). This is in accordance with the Scripture: "To whom much is given, much will be required (Luke 12:48). God gave men more than He gave women (yes, it's not politically correct anywhere to say this), but the more one has, the more responsibility one gets; or the more responsibility one has, the more God gives to them. Men are responsible for the building of the whole world and the protection and managing of everything, therefore, it was necessary for God to give men more [tools] than He gave women. It's practical math; it has nothing to do with favor or value. Therefore, the person (ie. men) with greater capacity for good... is also the person (ie. men) who has greater capacity for evil. That's the way it works and is why God placed greater blame on King Ahab (who didn't overtly harm anyone) than on Queen Jezebel (who overtly harmed people all the time) as also was the case with Adam and Eve (sin entered through the man though the woman sinned first).
Okay very interesting so far, I didnt know this. So these spirits God gave men and women, the men get it harder but it evens out in the end?

Marianne has a site where she has excellent articles about the Jezebel spirit in both women and men. Here are two articles:

The charismatic male Jezebel: https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/...jezebel-conquest-by-romance-and-assimilation/.

The conflict-oriented male Jezebel: https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/the-conflict-oriented-male-jezebel/.
Wow a few sentences in and the word Narcissism jumps out at me. I was married to the first and was involved with the second. Both really do a mind f**k on you.

I mentioned Jezebel as it operates and manifests in females because I like to address only one thing at a time since there are thousands of different things in play, so it wouldn't be wise to try to try to talk about all of them at once.

Yes, the Bible mentions the 'Wall of Hostility' but not in those words. The Bible rarely uses our contemporary words when talking about issues that are deeper than surface level. For instance, we talk about narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder (or NPD). The Bible talks about this 'disorder' very often, but it rarely uses one word like we do (eg. 'narcissist'). Rather, it uses words like "mocker, scoffer, insolent pride", etc. Some people in the Bible who had what we'd call NPD (ie. who were narcissists) were Pharaoh who wouldn't let Israel go, King Nebuchadnezzar, Queen Jezebel, and many of the religious leaders who pursued and persecuted Jesus and then later His apostles. DC Robertsson has a site that unfolds NPD in the Bible. He writes:

"You may have found this blog because you have a 'narcissist' in your life, or in the life of someone you care about. At first, you may not have known that you were dealing with a narcissist, but the pain and damage this selfish, arrogant, condescending, domineering person caused might have driven you to search for answers on what was going on, and on how to deal with this difficult person... In the process of trying to learn everything possible in your search for answers, you may have decided to explore what the Bible has to say on the subject... While the Bible does not specifically refer to 'narcissism' – which takes its name from Greek mythology – it does speak to the subject. " Thats pretty much how most people find out about NPD I believe, as was in my case being married to it and I did not know it had a name until a professional told me.

https://biblicalperspectivesonnarcissism.com/.

In the Bible, what was written for one occasion and in one context often is also used for other occasions and other contexts. For example, when Paul talks about "the Law", he is at least 90% of the time talking about the Law of Moses because of his audience. However. There are other 'laws' (eg. laws of physics, laws of mathematics, laws of attraction, spiritual laws, man's laws, etc.) to which some of the things Paul says about the Mosaic Law can be applied. An example is here:

"[Jesus] Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father" (Ephesians 2:14-18).

All of that is talking about "the middle wall of separation" between Jews and Gentiles. However. All of that can also be applied to "the middle wall of separation" between men and women-- the wall which was raised from the Curse that was put into effect right after the Fall. So, first there was the Fall (Adam and Eve sinned), then there was the Curse (God pronounced curses on everyone due to man's sin), then there was the Wall (one of the effects of the Curse). While dealing out the effect of the Fall (ie. the Curse), God told Eve, "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in pain you shall bring forth children; your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you"(Genesis 3:16). Since all those things were curses, it means that Eve's desire being for her husband is a bad thing. The explanation, then, isn't about her romantic desire for him but her desire to control him-- literally her desire would now be to make sure he did what she wanted him to do rather than what God or he wanted to do. Before the Fall, it was opposite of this: Adam did what God and he wanted to him to do (two people), and Eve did what God, Adam, and she wanted her to do (three people). After the Fall, Eve was no longer God or Adam but only herself; moreover, she would now be inclined to try to control both God and Adam (or to steer Adam away from God). The main takeaway from this curse (the Wall as regards women) is not really about the man nearly as much as it is about God: the woman would no longer desire God's involvement in her life (practically speaking: lifestyle, etc.; this doesn't include going to church) and would have the mindset of "Girls just wanna have fun" with every concept or notion of 'responsibility' and 'accountability' being faux pas and an abomination. This is the standard thing I see when I look at heterosexual interactions, relationships, and marriages today. Do you think this is the case also with Christian women?

Cassie Jaye, the woman in the following 15-minute video, used to be a feminist and set out to prove that the Men's Rights Movement hated women. (Men rarely hate women. On the other hand, the Wall often makes women feel hate for men. Women don't know about this Wall, but because people automatically justify their emotions and feelings these women constantly try to justify their hatred for men by blaming and tearing men down. But on listening closely to them, there are very rarely if ever any justifiable or logical reasons for their misandry. They often think men hate women (misogyny) because they hate men (misandry) and can't figure out why, so they grasp for reasons everywhere.) Cassie's experience caused the veil over her eyes (the Wall) to begin to break up enough for her to begin to see the truth. She abandoned feminism as a result.
The video was fascinating. From my disappointment with modern feminism I have tried to stay away from gender rights movements because it seems, to have their cause move forward they need to trample on their so called oppressors. Cassie mentions that she was not listening to her interviewees and I can see that happening in many marriages especially with women. Can women admit this, most of us ask our husbands a question and we have an answer ready, a translation of what we think he means. Why do we do this?
A lot of what she discovered during her research I had heard Jordan Peterson talk on.
So my question is do we need gender equality? Some of us already are waking up and learning to appreciate the differences between men and women.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain all of that. Sorry if my editing/quoting sux.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
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#78
When Jesus talked to the Jews using parables, they rarely knew what He was saying because He wasn't talking the way they were used to. But they didn't discredit what He said (the religious Jews did) just because they couldn't understand Him.
Big difference: You're not Jesus. :unsure:
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,973
8,194
113
#79
You see all women as being crazy, rebellious, and in need of being subdued by men?
Is this Kauko?

No... No this CAN'T be Kauko. The style is just far too different.
 

jennymae

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
1,465
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#80
"Your desire will be for your husband (to control him), but he will [have to] rule over you (because you'll be a rebellious, crazy woman)" (Genesis 3:16). That's the issue.
What Bible is this from? Is it a new edition? Some piece of lost Scripture recently discovered and written in? The Wall edition? I give up, now tell me where you found this highly accurate and authoritative transcription of the original text.