Dispensationalism...

Are Dispensationalists Judaizers?
I find nothing anywhere in the New Testament that indicates Jews return to Palestine again, after the 1st century.

I don't know what they are, but I know what I am. You find what you're looking for, your bias will blind you to anything else. Abrahamic Covenant was unconditional and eternal. Eternal, I'm pretty sure, is past the NT

Are Dispensationalists Judaizers? I do believe they come close to that.

Read the article in the Jewish Magazine:
http://www.jewishmag.com/157mag/israel_returns_to_promised_land/israel_returns_to_promised_land.htm

The last paragraph of that article reads:

"The Twelve Israelite Tribes will have become one People again, the Kingdom of priests, the light to the World. Through this unified and redeemed nation of Israel all the Divine Blessings of the Bible will come to pass into this world. It will be their Divinely ordained task and destiny to teach and guide the nations to worship one God of the Universe, God of Israel, by demonstrating righteousness, holiness, kindness and God’s love to all inhabitants of the earth in order to merit together the Messianic Era and life in the World to Come."

The New Testament tells us otherwise:

"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." (1Pet 1:10-11, KJV)

Read the OT prophecies applied to the New Covenant believers, the true Israel of God:

Joel 2:28 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Acts 2:16, 17
2 Sam 7:12, Psa 132:11 >>>>>> Acts 2:30, 31
Zech 12:9, 10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> John 19:36, 37
Amos 9:11, 12 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Acts 15:13-16
Jer. 31:31, 33 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heb 8:1, 4, 6-8
Mal 4:5, 6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Luke 1:17; Matt 11:13, 14

I find nothing anywhere in the New Testament that indicates Jews return to Palestine again, after the 1st century.

If Jews repent and believe in Christ, in your opinion do they become Christian?

You'll never answer that question because you know it would reveal too much about your true beliefs.

What does Romans say?? It says there is a remnant, are they Jews? Was it written to the church?? You tell me. Who is Romans 11 talking to?!

Great points, I just wanted to add:

Dispensationalism is a hybrid religion between Talmudic Judaism and Christianity. They aren't quite Jewish and they aren't quite Christian in the same sense that Mormons and Moslems aren't quite Christian. It's part of the reason we see so much fighting about exegesis. In their mind their exegetics are true to their source material. And well... they are right, but only because they aren't using the same source material as Christians.

Dispensationalists reject Rom 9 and Gal 3, they reject that a Jew could be a Christian, in their source material all Christians are gentiles and no Christian has Jewish heritage. In their source material, even if a Jew called themselves a Christian, they are still considered a Jew first (this is contrary to Christian scripture but completely consistent with modern Talmudic teachings, which Dispensationalism follows after). The Dispensationalist tie to Talmudism creates a bit of a conundrum. If they reveal the fact that they are taking notes from an antiChrist doctrine, it ruins their chances of proselytising. It's part of the reason that they all eventually become vicious when you point out that their beliefs are contrary to Christian scripture. Even if you suggest that their interpretation is possibly wrong, they will become vicious if they feel they have lost traction. Scam artists react in the same way when their sham is being called out. Anyone can look back and see, their complaints and accusations are never based on anything factual, and they often accuse others of the things that they do.

Basically, if you want to understand Dispensationalism better, all you need to do is read the Talmud and other modern Judaic material. If you want to understand why they are so gung ho about the 1000 year kingdom and the interpretation that the church would be "raptured away" prior to that point, it is because it allows some consistency with the Talmudic Judaic 1000 year kingdom where Jews enslave the world with their messiah.

1) Dispensationalists reject the parts of scripture that talk about there being no difference between Jews and Gentiles and especially the parts that state that elect Gentiles became God's people too and heirs to the Abraham promises through Christ.

2) In Talmudic Judaism, the heaven/hell situation is a bit different. There is Shoel, which is basically like purgatory, and there is "hypergrace" for all Jews. This also part of the reason that Dispensationalists recognize a hypergrace for all physical Jews.

3) Talmudic Jews also believe that only Talmudic Jews will fulfil the land promise to Abraham and that only Talmudic Jews (or those with the potential to join as a Talmudic Jew) count as Jews. This is part of the reason that Dispensationalists refuse to acknowledge that Jews could be Christian, or that any historical Jew could have given up their Jewish identity. Dispensationalists have a hard time talking about Biblical figures such as Paul and Christ and how they fit into the promise dynamic.

When you're arguing against the falsehoods of Dispensationalism, it's fruitful to remember the Talmudic influence in their beliefs.

I'm always surprised by the new tricks they develop in order to avoid the clear contradiction they have with Christian scripture. The latest one I've seen here was the claim that when Gal 3:16 is talking about promises to Abraham's seed, that it apparently wasn't actually talking about promises to Abraham's seed. And that out of the three seed promises made to Abraham, that apparently there was a hidden additional "salvation seed promise" or two that Gal 3:16 would refer to.

The answer is clearly placed in front of them, they just appear blind to it, hardened to it, or otherwise unreceptive. It's a practice in patience. And like tantruming teenagers, the hope is that eventually they will wake up out of it.

Stand strong against their lies. 1+1=2 and Dispensationalism is just another false religion.

Is there a passage of scripture that says that ? No there is not. A passage that is very ambiguous is what you based your belief on a few posts back.

Genesis 17:7
I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.

Psalm 105:5-11

Remember His wonders which He has done,
His marvels and the judgments uttered by His mouth,
O seed of Abraham, His servant,
O sons of Jacob, His chosen ones!
He is the Lord our God;
His judgments are in all the earth.

He has remembered His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,
The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac.
Then He confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan
As the portion of your inheritance,”

Genesis 35:10-12

God said to him,
“Your name is Jacob;
You shall no longer be called Jacob,
But Israel shall be your name.”
Thus He called him Israel. God also said to him,
“I am God Almighty;
Be fruitful and multiply;
A nation and a company of nations shall come from you,
And kings shall come forth from you.
“The land which I gave to Abraham and Isaac,
I will give it to you,
And I will give the land to your descendants after you.”

Joshua 1:2-6

... now therefore arise, cross this Jordan, you and all this people, to the land which I am giving to them, to the sons of Israel. Every place on which the sole of your foot treads, I have given it to you, just as I spoke to Moses. From the wilderness and this Lebanon, even as far as the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and as far as the Great Sea toward the setting of the sun will be your territory.
No man will be able to stand before you all the days of your life. Just as I have been with Moses, I will be with you; I will not fail you or forsake you. Be strong and courageous, for you shall give this people possession of the land which I swore to their fathers to give them


1 Chronicles 16:15-18

Remember His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,
The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac.
He also confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan,
As the portion of your inheritance.”

Gods promise of salvation were fulfilled AMEN

Gods promise of land and peace in that land for Israel can not be fulfilled by CHrist.

Once again, your trying to replace land promise with salvation promises. They are seperate.

No more jews in covenant with God?

My friend. Please start to read the word of God.

For salvation. There is no jew and gentile

As for Gods elect or chosen nation. Paul makes it very clear in romans 11 God is not done with them. They are still beloved according to the election. Because the gifts of God are irrevocable

The churhc has not replaced Israel according to the land promise given to them in Genesis

Rubbish God had dealings with Israel before the law and made an everlasting covenant with them. And He foretold their future in the latter days.

You are the one needing to get things right. The "world" under discussion in Matthew in Strong's is: "G165 αἰών aion (ai-ōn') n." It is not cosmos. I was not discussing John 3:16.

A CHALLENGE FOR THE DISPENSATIONALISTS

"Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1:3, ASV)

I cannot find in the commentaries of the church, or writings of known Bible scholars of the past, earlier than 1800 who found a gap of 2500+ years between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel 9:24. Can a dispensationalist give a reference for that in the history of the church? What common sense reason can be had to 'read into' the 70 weeks such a gap? It MUST be read into it!

I've not found the idea that Ezekiel 40-48 represents a reconstituted Israel on the land in Palestine with sacrifices and the literal temple. Can anyone show me where that was taught prior to the 19th century?

Dispensationalism began in the 1800s but only started to become more widespread after 1900 with the Scofield Reference Bible as one of the main culprits.

The body of Christ found it necessary to form the ecumenical creeds in the early history of the church to have a systematic presentation of the nature of God and Jesus Christ to combat the heresies. Martin Luther began the Protestant Reformation where the Reformers worked to take the church back to biblical teachings as taught in the Bible and were found in the body of Christ through the centuries.

I can, find before the 1800s, many men of God believed that before the end of time, a great mass of Jews would repent and come into the church, but I know of none that taught a new Jewish Empire was to be rebuilt around Jerusalem. Can anyone give me a reference where that was taught in the church before the 19th century?

But what have we now, that began developing in the 19th century?

Christian Science (which is neither Christian nor science)
Mormons
Jehovah's Witnesses
Seventh Day Adventists
Charles G. Finney and his 'new measures' - https://www.monergism.com/disturbing-legacy-charles-finney
Dispensationalists
other lesser known groups

If Jews repent and believe in Christ, in your opinion do they become Christian?

You'll never answer that question because you know it would reveal too much about your true beliefs.

God keeps His promises , God keeps His covenants that does not mean there are not conditions.
Deu 7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:

To those who believe the land God showed to Abraham was an unconditional gift. An everlasting covenant. Why did they need to get it back. If there were no conditions they would have never lost it. All of it
Gen_15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Yes my friend, they will not only become christian, they will become by brother and my sister in Christ,

Abrahams covenant has no conditions

if it does. Your salvation is conditional

God gave them the land; they polluted it with their sin and broke the covenant beyond repair. Don't you know that Israel killed the Son whom the Father sent for them? Don't you understand that once the law was broken, it was broken forever? Why do you think God destroyed the temple through the Romans? I tell you why because grace had come in the person of His Son (Titus 2:13), to remove the law forever, after having fulfilled it Himself, and to officially close the old covenant, and officially release the new covenant that Jesus shed with His blood (Mat. 26:26, Lk 22:20).

Israel's purpose forever was to receive the Son and enter into life, yet we have Christians like you that are thinking backward. The land's purpose was for the Son to be born and become their eternal King who reigned in the heavens before the world was, and will reign forever from heaven, yet you are still thinking about a piece of land as if that piece of land means something today.

God fulfilled His promise to them. Don't you read your Bible?

Joshua 21:45 (NASB 2020) "Not one of the good promises which the Lord had made to the house of Israel failed; everything came to pass."

1 Kings 8:56 (NASB 2020) “Blessed be the Lord, who has given rest to His people Israel in accordance with everything that He promised; not one word has failed of all His good promise, which He promised through Moses His servant."

No one is replacing anything. The old covenant had to go to give room to the new!

Heb 10:1 "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the form of those things itself, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually every year, make those who approach perfect."

Hebrews 8:13 (NASB 2020) "When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear."

One last time, without the Law, Israel could not exist. God's plan was for them to receive Christ, leave the door behind and embrace eternal life (Jn 17:3).

John 1:11 (NASB 2020) "He came to His own, and His own people did not accept Him."

God gave them the land; they polluted it with their sin and broke the covenant beyond repair. Don't you know that Israel killed the Son whom the Father sent for them? Don't you understand that once the law was broken, it was broken forever? Why do you think God destroyed the temple through the Romans? I tell you why because grace had come in the person of His Son (Titus 2:13), to remove the law forever, after having fulfilled it Himself, and to officially close the old covenant, and officially release the new covenant that Jesus shed with His blood (Mat. 26:26, Lk 22:20).

Israel's purpose forever was to receive the Son and enter into life, yet we have Christians like you that are thinking backward. The land's purpose was for the Son to be born and become their eternal King who reigned in the heavens before the world was, and will reign forever from heaven, yet you are still thinking about a piece of land as if that piece of land means something today.

God fulfilled His promise to them. Don't you read your Bible?

Joshua 21:45 (NASB 2020) "Not one of the good promises which the Lord had made to the house of Israel failed; everything came to pass."

1 Kings 8:56 (NASB 2020) “Blessed be the Lord, who has given rest to His people Israel in accordance with everything that He promised; not one word has failed of all His good promise, which He promised through Moses His servant."

No one is replacing anything. The old covenant had to go to give room to the new!

Heb 10:1 "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the form of those things itself, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually every year, make those who approach perfect."

Hebrews 8:13 (NASB 2020) "When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear."

One last time, without the Law, Israel could not exist. God's plan was for them to receive Christ, leave the door behind and embrace eternal life (Jn 17:3).

John 1:11 (NASB 2020) "He came to His own, and His own people did not accept Him."

If they repent. God WILL keep his promise to them.. Prophecy tells us they will repent. and God will restor them