Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

Feel free to look up a Greek lexicon because the words eats is in the aorist tense. That means if someone continues to eat the bread from heaven then they will live forever.

This is what aorist tense means:
an unqualified past tense of a verb without reference to duration or completion of the action.

John 6:51
51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

"God be merciful, a sinner" that was his prayer and Jesus says he went home justified.

I will trust Jesus word on this over Everlasting-Grace

Read Ephesians 2 and notice all the times it says "in Christ" or "in the Lord." We have life if we remain in Him; otherwise, we don't.

The popular myth of regeneration says when we're born again we're "zapped" and are changed into an immortal being and it can never be reversed. But if that's case, why do we still sin? Why would we still need Christ?

If we remain in Christ we have life; we don't have life of ourselves. It's like being in a lifeboat (Christ) in the middle of the ocean; so long as we remain in the boat we're safe. If we go jump out and try to swim on our our own we've lost our safety and will perish.

One sin or one momentary lapse of faith won't disqualify you. It has to be a conscious, willful, and ongoing decision on our part to abandon Christ. God is patient, not wanting any to perish. He'll bend over backward to bring us back, but if we persist in rebellion we will sign our own death sentence.

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins," Hebrews 10:26

I know what aorist tense means

It means you eat and you continue to eat until it completes its job. which would be a person who comes to faith and is saved.

That could take days weeks or even years.. But once it has completed its workd. It is completed..

I know what aorist tense means

It means you eat and you continue to eat until it completes its job. which would be a person who comes to faith and is saved.

That could take days weeks or even years.. But once it has completed its workd. It is completed..

It does not need to be continually ate. because it completed its action. The words of eternal life have been enacted on.

But I also know reality

If we need to keep eating, then we will still hunger and still thirst and still die.. The promise is nullified..

the gospel message of the cross is the words.. You either believe them or you do not

whoever believes is not condemned.

whoever does not believe is condemned already.

no place does it say they may have stopped believing and returned to condemned. It says they were condemned already

Runningman said:
Feel free to look up a Greek lexicon because the words eats is in the aorist tense. That means if someone continues to eat the bread from heaven then they will live forever.

This is what aorist tense means:
an unqualified past tense of a verb without reference to duration or completion of the action.

John 6:51
51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

You are both in error.

The aorist tense is basically equivalent to our past tense. It is a point in time action, usually in the past, not continuous action.


Saving faith is instantaneous. WHEN a person trusts in the work of Christ, they ARE saved.

I have read Ephesians. For me the context of those identities, in Christ, refers to the redeemed.
And in no way implies we have to strive to retain our status as such. This due to what is written in Ephesians 2 and Romans 11.

I guess I don't understand this insistence some pursue against our secure eternal salvation. Jesus said of
all the father gives him he shall lose none. And he also said of us that no one shall take us from his hand.

Eternal Life,salvation.

How do we contradict Jesus and say that isn't true?

No one is saved because they said a 30 second sinners prayer

I guess I don't understand this insistence some pursue against our secure eternal salvation. Jesus said of all the father gives him he shall lose none. And he also said of us that no one shall take us from his hand.

Eternal Life,salvation.

How do we contradict Jesus and say that isn't true?

I was raised on this teaching and have subscribed to it for the last 40 years. But there is a very dark side to this. Go to these mega church pastors and they all teach this but they have a very different slant than what I was taught.

My understanding was that we have the assurance of eternal salvation as a helmet to protect us from Satan's attacks as we pursue the Lord and seek first the kingdom.

I have seen a very different slant is from people sitting in a bar, going to a football game, living in fornication, even having abortions and using this to say they are saved because years ago they prayed. Not only so but they give the impression that this is the sum total of the Christian life, once you are saved you are always saved, and then they return to their sinful life and have very little to do with the Lord.

If the people that subscribed to this spoke on the two verses in John they always quote about 1/4,000th of the time I would not have any issue with it. That is probably how much I quote those verses. But that is not what I see so many places. Those two verses are repeated every day like some kind of mantra while the other 7,000+ verses of the New Testament are ignored, dismissed, explained away, etc.

So what I have seen is a very distorted, warped view of the Bible. This is part of the apostasy, you take the verses you like, you get rid of the verses you don't like.

For example, about 1/4th of the verses in the Bible talk about the end times, the day of the Lord, the coming judgement, hell, the redemption of our body, glorification, etc. Do pastors and preachers spend 1/4th of their messages on this?

For example, I was asked about what I meant by salvation. So I brought up many of the New Testament verses on salvation that covered many different aspects of this topic and discussed each verse. The response from one person was that almost all of those verses don't matter, the only one that mattered was the one that was referring to justification by faith from sin.

So I don't reject any verse in the Bible, what I reject is doctrines of man that focus on one verse to the exclusion of others.

The other thing I have seen is they keep trying to tell me what I believe, to put me in some box they have. It is as though they cannot hear, they cannot see, and it is impossible to have fellowship with them.

They believe they must rely on themselves to maintain the irrevocable gifts of God.

Except we're told those who are in Christ don't do those things you describe. And if they do they're not saved at all because Christ isn't in them.

That makes them different than us.

Thanks. That's the message I was reading in their posts also.

I was raised on this teaching and have subscribed to it for the last 40 years. But there is a very dark side to this. Go to these mega church pastors and they all teach this but they have a very different slant than what I was taught.

My understanding was that we have the assurance of eternal salvation as a helmet to protect us from Satan's attacks as we pursue the Lord and seek first the kingdom.

I have seen a very different slant is from people sitting in a bar, going to a football game, living in fornication, even having abortions and using this to say they are saved because years ago they prayed. Not only so but they give the impression that this is the sum total of the Christian life, once you are saved you are always saved, and then they return to their sinful life and have very little to do with the Lord.

If the people that subscribed to this spoke on the two verses in John they always quote about 1/4,000th of the time I would not have any issue with it. That is probably how much I quote those verses. But that is not what I see so many places. Those two verses are repeated every day like some kind of mantra while the other 7,000+ verses of the New Testament are ignored, dismissed, explained away, etc.

So what I have seen is a very distorted, warped view of the Bible. This is part of the apostasy, you take the verses you like, you get rid of the verses you don't like.

For example, about 1/4th of the verses in the Bible talk about the end times, the day of the Lord, the coming judgement, hell, the redemption of our body, glorification, etc. Do pastors and preachers spend 1/4th of their messages on this?

For example, I was asked about what I meant by salvation. So I brought up many of the New Testament verses on salvation that covered many different aspects of this topic and discussed each verse. The response from one person was that almost all of those verses don't matter, the only one that mattered was the one that was referring to justification by faith from sin.

So I don't reject any verse in the Bible, what I reject is doctrines of man that focus on one verse to the exclusion of others.

The other thing I have seen is they keep trying to tell me what I believe, to put me in some box they have. It is as though they cannot hear, they cannot see, and it is impossible to have fellowship with them.

Every source I've looked at disproves what you just said and I wouldn't have talked about aorist unless I was confident. I'm not going to debate universally agreed upon Greek grammar.

This is what aorist tense means:
an unqualified past tense of a verb without reference to duration or completion of the action.

See here another verse/passage where the Lord Jesus Christ Himself teaches us we must persevere till death in doing what He has commanded us; then, we will be blessed, otherwise we can be condemned.